529 responses to “{RUBY_B#ショウキュウ}椒丘{RUBY_E#}”

1. I’ll be real, he seemed mid on his first reveal, and only got nerfed since.

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2. Doomposters really won here huh. I’ll be laughing when all the video’s start coming out raving about how he’s still completely overpowered with Acheron.

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   • Yep, a lot of people are doomposting him here and I’m sure in other places. Part of it is that his usefulness is somewhat invisible (stack generation for Acheron is almost 3x that of Pela/SW even after nerf) and part of it is that he’s niche, where Pela, the closest unit to him, is much more of a generalist. And if you’re weird, part of it is him being male.

     It’s unfortunate, but Hoyo determined it was better to make him limited in scope and with most of his power locked behind extra pulls. If you care about Acheron, he’s a no-brainer pickup still, with more damage and stack generation than any other choice for E0 or E2 Acheron.

     I personally was hoping he’d be someone I could use for PF instead of Pela, but I don’t care enough about buffing my Acheron’s dmg to spend 80-160 pulls getting him.

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     • While I agree with most of your words I have different opinion about the “3x stack generation of Pela/SW” part. How many additional stacks can Jiaoqiu provide is dependant on the number of enemies and the speed at which you destroy the whole wave. Jiaoqiu might be 3x faster in PF, or even in AS if there are alot of mobs, but I don’t really think it is 3x in MoC.

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       • Oh yep you’re absolutely right! That’s my bad, I should have clarified. My stack assumption is:

         Pela/SW: 1 stack for every attack, with 3-turn rotation this is 3 attacks + ult = 4 stacks
         Jiaoqiu: 1 stack for every attack, plus 1 per enemy action/summon, capped at 10 total. With 2 enemies that are at least as fast as him, this is 6 stacks over ult duration (3 turns), which was my initial assumption. You likely need 3 enemies if your Jiaoqiu is at a significant speed, or if you break one or both enemies.

         10 stacks = 3.33 per turn, 4 stacks = 1.33 per turn. It’s actually 2.5 times at maximum, not 3 like I initially said. It’s also reduced if you can’t get a 3 turn rotation to 11/4 = 2.75 stacks per turn. With a single target, you’re talking more like 2 per turn.

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     • True. A lot of his power comes from his LC. Literally equal to 50% of his ult buff. But even so. At worse he’s equal to Pela as a generalist if she has no other def shredders helping her. With his LC he becomes better even if you run another def shredder. At 74% ult buff and 59% everything else, he match’s or beats Pela’s def shred even at high def shred levels.

       Other than that, he’s simply much better for Acheron.

       At E1/S1 which i am going for, he’ll boost my overall team damage by 50% more than what Pela does. Meaning if i hit 200m per enemy with Pela, i hit 300m with him.

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     • The only reason I thought about getting him is how everyone was telling how strong he is with Acheron in PF ( so I can brute force annoying PF like DOT buff only ), with the recent changes it feels less appealing to pull for him, but he is still clearly a better char for Acheron team over Pela / SW and no doubt we will see him doing great with Acheron. Outside of Acheron team, E0 feels like an insignificant upgrade and not worth all the pull if it goes over 80 pity, E0S1 is costly for actual upgrade, but you can get bad luck pull

       There is still some other factors when thinking about pulling him for Acheron to get ” Stronger “, that is if you actually need the extra power Acheron going to get. If it is 0 cycling in MoC, I am sure she can still do it without Jiaoqiu, at least for a much longer while, same as PF if you want 40k score, otherwise 30k is still easy with a strong account

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       • Yea for E0/S0 there honestly isn’t enough of an upgrade to pull for non Acheron teams.

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       • The only reason I thought about getting him is when before the beta starts, he was promised to be a megapela, suggesting he’s going to have ~40% AoE def shred plus something else that Pela doesn’t have. I decided to skip when it turns out he doesn’t have def shred but he has vulnerability instead, and it is less promising than the kit I dreamed of.

         I almost never consider to use Pela outside of Acheron, Jingliu, and Dr.Ratio’s team, since 58% AoE def shred expires rather quickly and the damage increment is only ~45% on her own. She is popular only because something on her is valued by some very specific DPS and the said DPS happen to be popular. If you happen to be using Pela supporting someone else, I would rather suggest getting a 5-star Harmony instead of getting Jiaoqiu replacing Pela.

         For E0 Acheron owners, it is always worth it to get Jiaoqiu. It is not a “Pela or Jiaoqiu” question, it is a “Pela and Jiaoqiu” question, taking them both would be optimal. Whoever you are running as the secondary nihility, replacing them with Jiaoqiu would be a significant upgrade. The only one who has something to win against Jiaoqiu in some scenarios is Silver Wolf, who has the opportunity to substract the lightning resistance by 30%, thus way higher supporting power vs. single target, but Silver Wolf has low synergy with Acheron to begin with, when vs. dual elite, one of the elites die too quickly and the other stay at ~30% HP, which is hard to say optimal.

         For E2 Acheron owners who are running Sparkle with her, getting Jiaoqiu to replace Pela is indeed an insignificant upgrade that is hard to justify the costs to do so. The upgrade only becomes significant when you get the E1 and/or S1.

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         • The thing about an extra Harmony over Jiaoqiu is that two Harmony almost always cause diminishing returns for the other. The true strength of Jiaoqiu is that his debuff is a multi to all other damage bonus apart from other vulnerabilities which only come in 12% bonus’s and often from other Nahility units.

           For example. Bronya + Sparkle is weaker than Jiaoqiu + Sparkle. or Jiaoqiu + Bronya.

         • @Dazz Aephiex What is his pull value for a non Acheron account xD ?

           @Reina I don’t do the math but it does sound convincing with the diminishing return. But consider Harmony like RM, Robin and Sparkle gives more than just dmg boost ( Break efficient / Turn Advance / more SP ), I would say it is more convincing to get one of them rather than Jiaoqiu

         • Oh boy, it’s the end of the line, the comment line. Sorry in advance for the mess that will be this comment.

           @Dazz
           I agree. The issue I see is that the devs messed up Harmony vs Nihility scaling. Harmonies, like Bronya, Sparkle, Ruan Mei, and Robin, are just all around good, with damage, crit damage, and speed/action advance buffs on all of them. Comparatively, Nihilities are much more restrictive (only def shred on Pela, only vulnerability on Jiaoqiu) and generally weaker damage amplification. It’s unfortunate, but outside of Ratio/Acheron teams you’d usually rather have a harmony than a nihility. And it’s hard for them to fix this without making Pela/SW/Jiaoqiu completely unusable. I thought they’d give the break buffing niche to nihility to compensate, also since harmony typical buffs don’t affect break, but I guess that’s a harmony thing, looking at RM and HTB.
           Also, I would argue SW is also better than Pela in AS, since the adds in that game mode should die to any Acheron ult with Jiaoqiu buffs, and you’d rather have more damage to the main boss, especially if you can get some more toughness damage early with the implant. MoC is a shakeup depending on the relative HP of the enemies, like you said.

           @Random Comment Enjoyer
           I’m not Dazz, but I can provide some input here if you don’t mind.
           You can think of pulling E0S0 like pulling another Pela, with the benefits of being better for any ultimate-based DPS that we get. If that sounds good to you, then try him out.
           Source:
           Assuming no other sources of def shred (quantum/prisoner/cavalry sets) at E0S0:
           High eidolon Pela plus S5 Sweat LC is 58% def shred, or 45% damage. With a different LC you only get 29%.
           Jiaoqiu gives 35% damage amplification (true value), and can give 16% def shred if you run S5 Sweat LC. This is 47.6% damage. (For ult damage this is increased to 64%)

           If both have S5 Sweat, Jiaoqiu is 1.8% better than Pela for damage amplification. With both having different cones, he gives 4.6% more damage.
           For comparison, SW with no weakness implant gives 57.7% for single-target, which is 8.8% better than Pela. (With implant, SW’s buff goes up to 36% more damage than Pela, or 49% in Apocalyptic Shadow brute force due to Pela not being able to affect resistance).
           Notably, he does also have a DoT that means his self-damage should be the highest of all 3, especially with his EHR to ATK conversion. He’s still weaker than Ruan Mei for Kafka teams based on calculations I’ve seen, but he does work there. Dazz can go into more detail than I can here, I’m not confident in my team damage calculations.

         • @Despicable Neutral

           He’s not better than RM for DoT teams. I’ve seen some calcs show that he’s just as good as RM for DoT teams when both are at E0 and E1. Then he surpasses her by a lot at E2 going to 50% stronger. He’s not only buffing for DoT, but also applying DoT himself while being buffed himself by Black Swan. At E2 his DoT becomes the biggest in the game and the highest of the 3. Doing over 60k all by it’s self. It turns Kafka into a makeshift Jingliu while keeping all the other DoT shenanigans.

         • @Reina

           Yep, that sounds about right. Thanks for the help!

           I specifically was talking about E0S0 because that was what Random Comment Enjoyer was asking about. I’m not surprised E2 makes him better than Ruan Mei in DoT teams, the multiplier literally increases by more than Kafka’s total DoT multiplier lol.

           He definitely seems to be a premium character with how much he improves from his initial eidolons and LC. Probably trying to sell copies of him to Acheron and Kafka mains.

         • @Reina

           Diminishing isn’t zero return. Even when diminishment is included, adding an extra Harmony into the team is still greater than adding Jiaoqiu into the team if the DPS does not value Jiaoqiu’s frequent debuffing. Also, I almost never consider to add Bronya and Sparkle into a same team, this is the most awful and hard to use Harmony pair I can think of.

           —-

           My Seele has:
           1. 3200 attack and 1222 base attack;
           2. 80% / 160% crits, and 72% additional crit damage for ultimate;
           3. 10 + 38.8 + 80 damage amp, and 56 additional damage amp for basic and skill;
           4. 20 def pen;
           5. 20 res pen.

           E0S1 Sparkle gives:
           1. 1200 * 0.45 = 540 attack;
           2. +10% / +128% crits;
           3. 48 damage map.

           E0S1 Robin gives:
           1. 1300 attack;
           2. 74 damage amp;
           3. 20% crit damage.

           Note that the damage calculations below are based on an experimental condition and does not stand for how much damage Seele can exactly do. These calculations are only used to compare the damage increment with different supports.

           —-

           The damage with no supports

           Basic attack: ~20272
           3200 * 1 * (1 + 0.8 * 1.6) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.56) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 20272.20…

           Skill: ~44598
           3200 * 2.2 * (1 + 0.8 * 1.6) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.56) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 44598.84…

           Ultimate: ~86702
           3200 * 4.25 * (1 + 0.8 * (1.6 + 0.72)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 86702.03…

           —-

           The damage with E0S1 Sparkle

           Basic attack: ~43618 (+115% greater than no supports)
           (3200 + 540) * 1 * (1 + (0.8 + 0.1) * (1.6 + 1.28)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.56 + 0.48) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 43618.16…

           Skill: ~95959 (+115% greater than no supports)
           (3200 + 540) * 2.2 * (1 + (0.8 + 0.1) * (1.6 + 1.28)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.56 + 0.48) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 95959.96…

           Ultimate: ~181998 (+110% greater than no supports)
           (3200 + 540) * 4.25 * (1 + (0.8 + 0.1) * (1.6 + 1.28 + 0.72)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.48) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 181998.83…

           —-

           The damage with E0S1 Robin

           Basic attack: ~38435 (+90% greater than no supports)
           (3200 + 1300) * 1 * (1 + 0.8 * (1.6 + 0.2)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.56 + 0.74) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 38435.35…

           Skill: ~84557 (+90% greater than no supports)
           (3200 + 1300) * 2.2 * (1 + 0.8 * (1.6 + 0.2)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.56 + 0.74) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 84557.78…

           Ultimate: ~170398 (+96% greater than no supports)
           (3200 + 1300) * 4.25 * (1 + 0.8 * (1.6 + 0.72 + 0.2)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.74) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 170398.11…

           —-

           The damage with E0S1 Sparkle and E0S1 Robin

           Basic attack: ~75450 (+72% greater than Sparkle alone; +96% greater than Robin alone)
           (3200 + 540 + 1300) * 1 * (1 + (0.8 + 0.1) * (1.6 + 1.28 + 0.2)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.56 + 0.48 + 0.74) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 75450.00..

           Skill: ~165990 (+72% greater than Sparkle alone; +96% greater than Robin alone)
           (3200 + 540 + 1300) * 2.2 * (1 + (0.8 + 0.1) * (1.6 + 1.28 + 0.2)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.56 + 0.48 + 0.74) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 165990.02…

           Ultimate: ~324024 (+78% greater than Sparkle alone; +90% greater than Robin alone)
           (3200 + 540 + 1300) * 4.25 * (1 + (0.8 + 0.1) * (1.6 + 1.28 + 0.72 + 0.2)) * (1 + 0.1 + 0.388 + 0.8 + 0.48 + 0.74) * (1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.8))) * 1.2 = 324024.20…

           —-

           From the calculations above, we see than even when the diminishment of returns is included, adding E0S1 Sparkle / E0S1 Robin into the team is still greater than adding E0S1 Jiaoqiu into the team, who gives +59% damage increment in this case. I didn’t even count the extra turns that Sparkle and Robin provide as well as Robin’s additional damage.

         • @Random Comment Enjoyer

           If you play Dr.Ratio /wo Topaz, then Jiaoqiu is probably a valid pull since E0S1. Otherwise, getting Jiaoqiu is ill-adviced on your account unless your account is absolutely devoid of DPS supports and you tolerate no waiting for reruns and you want a DPS support immediately.

         • @Dazz Aephiex

           You also need to think about up time. Jiaoqiu has 100% up time. Neither Robin nor Sparkle do at E0. You also need to think about personal damage. From stuff i’ve seen Jiaoqiu does actually a nice bit of damage, enough to be counted as a sub DPS. Along with that, specifically ult damage is almost matched by Sparkle + Jiaoqiu.

           As you said. With Sparkle + Robin when both ults and skills are active, Seele would do 166k with her skill and 324k with her ult for a total of 490k. With Sparkle and Jiaoqiu Seele’s skill would do 152k and her ult would do 318k for a total of 470k. Which is 20k less, but as i said, he has greater up time. He also then adds his own damage, which is like 80k after all hits connect (His damage would also be buffed by Sparkles team damage.). As i said to you before, any extra damage a buffer can do can be looked at as another buff. Total team damage from this set up would do 550k. 60k more than what Robin and Sparkle can do with the same hits. And it’s more consistent.

         • Oh and that was just vs one, Jiaoqiu’s damage vs 5 would be much greator. Lowering some enemies HP allowing Seele to more easily get resurgence as well. Ect ect.

         • I didn’t count the extra turns in the damage formula because it’s hard to measure. When we count that then the damage increment is even more terrifying. The uptime is only a corner to be worked-around with when you have much to exploit. I zero-cycled the MoC 12 Argenti boss with Seele, Sparkle, Robin and TY and I’m not really confidant I can still do the same with Sparkle or Robin replaced with Jiaoqiu, even with E1S1 Jiaoqiu. Every action advancement matters in my tactics to zero-cycle while Jiaoqiu has nothing alike.

           Despite I’m taking Seele as an example she’s an abnomaly. She isn’t really asking for something very specific and the tactics can greatly vary depending on the enemies and the blessings. The calcs only meant to compare the damage increment and tell that the damage increment of Harmony units is still greater even when diminishment included. I’m not taking more about Seele’s tactics here, it’s kinda offtopic.

           As you see in my calcs, even with only one of the said supports, Seele’s skill damage is already enough to one-shot most of the mobs you can encounter in MoC.

           Robin has higher personal damage than Jiaoqiu. I don’t think I need a proof for this. More importantly, her additional DMG does not have to wait for the enemies to take turns, but instead can be triggered by any friendly unit’s attack, even by the sustainer’s attack. Without a dedicated sub DPS in the team, even FX serves like a sub DPS under Robin’s aura.

         • Tbh i thought you counted Robin damage with it lol. Don’t have her so don’t know much about her. I try not to look at chars i need to skip for future chars so i don’t get temped. As a result i was only doing calcs involving the supports a do know and i know Jiaoqiu can keep up with them.

         • Yet still, while you may not be confident you can do the same without Sparkle or Robin (But you probably could.), switching him for TY would most certainly still allow you to clear easily.

         • Nah, TY is crucial in my zero-cycling tactics. She may ultimate right at the begining of the battle, giving Robin just enough energy so first turn ult is available. Otherwise, first turn ult is not available. The S5 DDD allowed Seele to take action right before the elite enemies to strike down the exploding fish without the help of Sparkle, so Sparkle may skill TY to give her an extra turn, gaining just enough energy to recast her ultimate right at the begining of the second wave, and in turns Robin is able to recast her ultimate by the end of the first cycle of the second wave.

         • Well can’t argue with a strat. I don’t 0 cycle with E0 chars so idk, i know it’s a good bit harder than 0 cycling with E2 chars like i do. I 0 cycle with my mono qauntum. Then i 0 cycle with my Acheron which is less consistant but still easy if one member does not get bodied. Jiaoqiu is going to make that much easier tho. My calcs show an upgrade from 240% base Acheron damage to 350% base Acheron damage. Though those calcs were done done with RM added into it which i use for 0 cycles.

           E2/S1 Acheron, E1/S1 Bronya, E1/S1 Jiaoqiu and E1/S1 RM will be that teams 0 cycle squad.

           Once i get E2 Bronya i can go Atk boots on Acheron as well which will make it even stronger. 😛 When oh when will she come home.

         • Sorry, were done WITHOUT RM added into it. RM ofc makes my multiplier much higher.

         • Just reproduced the zero-cycling and made a record for this.

           —-

           Before battle:

           Sparkle’s technique, Robin’s technique, TY’s technique * 2, Seele’s technique, then strike with Seele.

           —-

           First wave:
           Immediately cast TY’s ultimate on Robin.

           Cast TY’s skill on Seele.
           Cast Robin’s skill.
           Cast Sparkle’s skill on TY.
           Cast TY’s basic attack on the exploding fish, so Seele is able to strike down the exploding fish in the next step.
           Cast Seele’s skill on the exploding fish and activate Robin’s ultimate. Seele’s talent triggers right after everyone is put on top of the action meter.
           Cast Seele’s basic attack on an unfortunate elite enemy, and she’s now on top of the action meter. Do it again on the same enemy.
           Cast Sparkle’s skill on Seele.
           Cast TY’s skill. Activate Sparkle’s ultimate and activate Seele’s ultimate, killing the unfortunate elite enemy, then skill on the other. At this point you are supposed to have 6 SP.

           Wow, you did so many before any enemy gets a turn. But the remaining elite enemy is still a threat, and can possibly ruin your zero-cycling if any unit is badly damaged at this point, thus unable to survive in the second wave.

           Cast Seele’s skill on the last elite enemy. At this point it is supposed to have very low HP, just one more strike.
           Cast TY’s basic attack on the tropper, or on the elite enemy if it doesn’t seem to have an HP below Seele’s killing line. Do NOT kill it right now. At this point TY’s ultimate is ready, but hold on.
           Cast Sparkle’s skill on Seele, then Seele’s skill on the elite enemy, finishing the wave. At this point Seele’s ultimate is ready.

           —-

           Second wave:

           Immediately cast TY’s ultimate on robin, then cast Seele’s ultimate on Argenti. At this point Seele still has the crit damage bonus on her.

           At this point Seele is supposed to be on top of the action meter. Cast Seele’s basic attack on the Argenti boss.
           At this point TY’s buff is expired. Cast TY’s skill on Seele.
           Cast Sparkle’s skill on Seele. She is now supposed to take her next turn between the Argenti boss and the mobs he summons.

           Argenti boss takes his first turn. He is supposed to summon 2 mobs and do a single target attack. The mobs are supposed to below the one-shot line of Seele.

           Cast Seele’s skill on a mob, killing it, then basic attack on the Argenti boss.
           Cast TY’s basic attack on any target is fine.

           Argenti boss takes his second turn. He is supposed to cast an AoE attack. If nobody was badly damaged in the first wave then you are supposed to survive the attack.

           Cast Seele’s skill on the Argenti boss. The damage is supposed to be enough to deplete his HP.

           Argenti boss enters the second phase, summoning mobs. Don’t worry, he don’t attack during this turn, and he won’t have a chance to.

           At this point Seele’s ultimate is ready, but hold on.
           Cast Sparkle’s skill on Seele. At this point Sparkle’s ultimate is ready, but hold on.
           Robin’s ultimate expires and she takes turn. Cast her basic attack on any target and her ultimate is ready. Immediately cast Robin’s ultimate -> Sparkle’s ultimate -> Seele’s ultimate. After this point Seele is supposed to be on top of the action meter.
           Cast Seele’s skill on a mob, killing it. Cast her skill on the Argenti boss during the extra turn. Just one more strike and he will die.
           Cast TY’s skill on Seele, then TY’s ultimate is ready.
           Cast Sparkle’s skill on Seele, then TY’s ultimate on Seele.
           Seele is now on top of the action meter, with ultimate ready. Cast the ultimate and the battle is over.

           —-

           Congrats!

         • As you can see, Robin has nigh 100% uptime during the process thanks to TY’s additional energy and Seele’s countless attacks. This is what I mean by “The uptime is only a corner to be worked-around with when you have much to exploit.”

         • @Reina

           If you are running E2 Acheron with Bronya then it is nothing strange you value 100% uptime so much. Acheron has an “energy” buffer mechanic meaning she doesn’t risk losing energy not immediately casting her ultimate. However, she loses this strength when running with Bronya, as Bronya’s buff mercilessly expires after the end of Acheron’s turn, meaning if she does not cast her ultimate right now she loses damage.

           However when running with Sparkle, Sparkle’s crit damage buff persists until the begining of Acheron’s next turn, before which point Sparkle is supposed to have already recast her skill on Acheron, meaning it is 100% uptime on the Harmony’s side. In this case, Pela’s relatively low uptime can be worked-around with simply by holding Acheron’s ultimate for just a few moments until the enemies are fully debuffed, which does not cause Acheron to lose damage.

           Also, it is nothing strange you regard E1S1 Jiaoqiu as high supporting power when Ruan Mei is in comparason. Ruan Mei has relatively mid supporting power when supporting traditional crit DPS and is only winning against 4-stars, giving only 68% damage amp and 25% res pen at lowered uptime. While E1S1 Jiaoqiu gives 74% vul for ult in total and 48% damage amp and the buffs have unconditional 100% uptime, which is apparently better than Ruan Mei. Ruan Mei is dominant supporting break DPS, but that’s another topic.

           I suspect your Sparkle’s busy with your mono-Quantum, so it is indeed a net boost for your account to replace Pela with Jiaoqiu.

         • @Dazz Aephiex

           Yup pretty much. I don’t rly have issues with Bronya, i have my speed and such set perfectly. To give aan exsample.

           Starts with 6.
           Pela Normal it goes to 7.
           E2 Acheron + LC so Skill goes to 9 + 1.
           Bronya skill.
           E2 Acheron 9 + 2 so i ult before i skill.
           E2 Acheron 2, i now skill to get to 4.
           Pela Normal to get to 5 and i ult and get to 6.
           E2 Acheron Skill so now i have 9.
           Bronya skill + ult.
           E2 Acheron 9 + 1 Skill to get 9 + 3 and ult.
           Pela Normal 4
           E2 Acheron skill 7.
           Bronya
           E2 Acheron skill 9 + 1 and ult.
           Pela Normal 2 + Ult 3
           Acheron Skill, 6
           Bronya
           Acheron Skill 9 + ult.

           Ect ect. As you can see, i get to 4 Acheron ults before i even have to worry about not being able to ult outside of Bronya’s skill and by that time, the battles already over.

           Jiaoqiu will change things up, but icba figuring it out before having him. Once i do imma try to set up a new rotation. But at the very least, he will make it so i can always ult after Bronya’s skill no matter what. If i need 5 or 6 it won’t be a problem.

       • @Random Comment Enjoyer

         It’s not that he’s “Just” a bit stronger though. Like at E1/S1 he far surpasses them. So much so even the advance falls massively short.

         For example. My current Acheron team currently buffs her to 240% of her solo performance. After i get E1/S1 she will become 350% solo performance. That out does most sorts of advance from what i’ve calced.

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         • Well if you are going for that investment that is, what I meant was the generally E0 or at best with S1 at most, if going for E1S1 of course he is really good, but it is not the investment I will make when I only buy monthly pass and even more for most F2P players

           So at E0/S1 I still think it is better to get Harmony instead of him if making Acheron stronger isn’t their top priority, but expand more options / playstyle

3. Guys and gals, if you have been following leaks and still considering to pull JQ, PLEASE DON’T!
   You are enabling Waifuverse to keep doing this to other husbandos in the future! Please send them a clear message that we don’t appreciate this unfair treatment to the male characters!

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   • Nobody cares. Yall can keep whining about the males all you want. Danheng is one of the best characters in the game, Aventurine is a great sustain, Dr. Rat is good and free, Gallagher is the best 4 star sustain. And don’t get me started on genshin with Neuvillette, Kazuha, Zhongli, Bennett, Baizhu, Wanderer etc. Time to stop the victimization

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   • el cebo solía ser creíble

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4. I see they changed it so his Ashen Roasts are now considered a Burn DoT as part of his base kit, nice! I was really hoping for that to happen. I wanted someone who could apply bleed or burn to replace Sampo on my DoT team. Since I don’t want to do the formula or calculations, hopefully having a different flavor and the damage amplification debuff will be greater than losing the wind shear stacks and DoT vulnerability debuff.

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5. I need something explaining- there’s talk that his ult applying ashen roast when enemies take action is limited to 6 times per ult but I don’t see any mention of that limit in his kit on here. Is this not up to date or have I just somehow missed that detail despite reading through several times?
   The only mention of a cap I can see is in his talent ‘Ashen Roast is capped at 5 stack(s) and lasts for 2 turn(s)’ which reads like the max stacks per enemy and not max stacks his ult can give when enemies take action before needing to ult again

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   • The limitation was added in the V5 update while this site didn’t find the time to follow up.

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     • fair enough. since Yunli and March’s pages were updated with v5, I assumed Jiaoqui’s was up to date as well

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6. idk why people are complaining since all i see is another character giving cancer to enemy and being able to might be able to replace ruan mei in kafka cancer giving team

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7. idk why everyone is currently complaining since all i see is another cancer for kafka team

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   • great so this dude is even worse now. from foxian healer to Nihility debuffer with many limitations. sad.

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8. That is what you get for being a husbando!

   You get NPC’d, you got a middling kit, and you get nerfed!

   Next stop: getting less marketing.

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9. You wanna know why Jiaoqiu’s eyes are always closed? Because he doesn’t wanna see the nerfs for himself!

   Bad jokes aside, I was initially gonna pull for him when he initially got leaked as a “super sustain def shred pela+”, then after countless nerfs to the point that it’s basically a character that you can “pull if you like his looks” rather than a “pull so that he’s good on your team”, I don’t feel like I’m going to pull for him anymore. He still may be good for Acheron in some way but I feel more comfortable with my Sustain/SW/Pela comp instead.

   When all the Jiaoqiu beef dies down when we all get to try him ourselves, and if a dedicated relic set probably gets leaked for him in 2.5, maybe I’ll change my mind.

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10. Hoyo has started to open their eyes, they need to release more hot and cute waifus

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    • Bro shut up. There’s countless OP waifus in this game you ingrate.

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      • Yeah and they want even more

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