207 responses to “Phainon”

1. Since I’m seeing some being upset about supposed powercreep with this guy: His kit is non-ironically pure dog💩. Look past pretty animations and misdirecting showcases for a second and you will realize this.
   I’m not doomposting, I’m saying a current fact: Phainon is all style and no substance. His multipliers is all he has. His 1-man gimmick works against him far more in the long run because no turn-based game ever (even non-gacha one), got this gimmick right. There is no turn-based game, that I played at least, in which 1 unit surpasses team of full. It’s especially bad because his future value is beyond cooked as he will keep needing very specific units to work with him to keep him up as content stops shilling him.
   He needs specific supports and can’t work with anything. Sub-dps options are also cooked for him.
   There is just too much that holds his kit back, over not. Compare it to literally any other dps, and you will realize I’m right. My Seele can 0-1 cycle up to this date and that’s in large thanks due to me being able to slap whatever new broken support with her (E1 Tribbie) and have her literally carry her. Phainon can’t do the same. He will never be able to do the same, because his kit is way too restrictive. The most restrictive out of any dps so far, on sole fact that once he ults, it’s 1-man army. Meaning his dps and his dps alone is all that carries him. He can’t abuse Tribbie, he can’t abuse any sub-dps unit, and he won’t be able to use just any support unit from the future in general as he requires very specific units.

   How will he end at the end of the beta, remains to be seen. As of now, Phainon is a bait unit over a true powercreep. The only thing he powercreeps are animations in this game. So, cries about him being some big powercreep are unwarranted. He has big multipliers and that’s literally all his kit truly has over the others. However, high multipliers aren’t good enough to have a unit survive a winter aka when content stops shilling them and moves elsewhere.
   So, to that one post who says certain people say he should be buffed (in mocking tone), they are right. He should. Because he is the definition of all style and no substance.

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   • If this is not doomposting I don’t know what is tbh. Cus all you did is hate on him lol.

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     • If that’s what you got out of this, then you have serious reading comprehension.

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       • No I just thought it was funny the way you started your sentence by saying “I’m not doomposting” and went on to only talk about how bad of a character he is. Aside from that I agree with some of your take. That’s all, you may have a good day now.

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         • Doomposting is talking shit about something just because you may dislike it. None of what I said was doomposting as it was factual saying about his actual kit state, when you look past shilling content that favors him. Too many refuse to do that! They only see present, and extremely unreliable 0-cycle showcases that absolutely don’t represent how a unit works on average. Jingliu was also hitting numbers like no other, making you not see how flawed her kit (uptime) was until her shilling stopped, then something like Aventurine boss came. Now you got to see every ugly flaw that her kit always had, but her shilling made you ignore. Firefly was melting content because everything was favoring her. See how little Tingyun does for her compared to Lingsha in terms of upgrade. Leading to Rappa to have a better time. She is literally carried by majority having her E2S1, being sunkcost, and just liking her too much to give up. The reality is that she has the exact same issues that Jingliu did in her kit. Which leads to Phainon. Jingliu 3.0.
           I would like to pretend that v3 of his surprised me, but it didn’t. Many glazed him due to pretty animations, refusing to see flaws. Attacking anyone (like myself) who pointed these out. Now you got him way more gutted than he was in v1. If v1 was flawed kit due to uptime reasons that shilling hid, then v3 brings whole new can of worms of what are issues with his kit now.

           In short: Some of you should stop over-glazing characters, and be more open to criticism. The whole point of beta is literally to point out on flaws. Over-glazing something just leads to bs like his v3 now.

           /end of whole Phainon discussion as far as I’m concerned

   • The main issue with Phainon is his AV, which e2 fixes completely. Damage is not an issue whatsoever. I agree though that the “powercreep” is overblown. He doesn’t seem as good as Castorice or The Herta but not every dps needs to be that good. They should buff his AV at e0, and change his e2 to something else. 3.4v2 starts tomorrow so maybe he’ll get some changes.

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     • Why is him consuming a lot of av a problem. I actually don’t know what av correlates to for anything outside of apoc and genuinely asking since im super confused.

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     • The issue with him is that with Herta, or Castorice, when they become outdated, one can get them carried (i.e. my Seele as best example). Either as sub-dps, carried by whatever latest broken support, or in Castorice’s case, she can even play semi-sustain, as funny as this sounds.
       Phainon needs damage as that is all he truly got. His kit is way too specific for sub-dps units, or have him abuse just whatever latest support. Which can cause issues in long run. Multi-phase bosses can absolutely became his biggest bane as HP inflation goes up & his current multipliers can’t keep up very well.
       Cerydra and preservation Dan fix some of his issues (allegedly), but I won’t talk about units that aren’t even in beta based on rumors I may have heard about them. I’ll say that Dan could potentially fix lack of sub-dps issue? Perhaps if his dragon thing is like Fat F*ck? Allegedly, Phainon brings Dan’s summon together with him. Either way, I’d prefer if his base kit itself gets some serious rework over “lmao just roll two limited to fix what Hoyo made an issue for him.”

       If flags aren’t raised enough about Phainon while in beta, then him being new gen Jingliu isn’t exactly what I would cheer for as Jingliu, even Firefly, both showed why high multipliers only don’t age well at all, and Phainon (as of now) is far more restrictive than even these two. Personally, I really do hope he gets justice in beta. I’m not one of those who goes into gender-war debate too much, but it’s undeniable that male units do get worse end of the stick. With kits that have these types of drawbacks on purpose, that devs ignore to fix. Even though I’m not pulling him, it will be stupid if Hoyo just proceeds to ignore complaints about Phainon’s current kit like how they ignored complainets about Mydei’s auto, or Anaxa’s lack of animations. If Phainon is left as now, then honestly there is no hope for future male units.

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       • Not sure why you think he is so restrictive. His supports just need to:
         -target allies somewhat often;
         -give a single ally a decent buff(atk, crit, damage%, res pen, etc) that’s not reliant on the support in question be on field.
         Done. That’s barely even a restriction. Every 5 star harmony unit besides Robin(a questionmark on this one), Tribbie, and HMC fits this.
         Compared to Firefly, who you used as an example, that’s pretty much nothing. Firefly demands extremely specific units, and we won’t get any more until Hoyo decide to revive the break meta just like it seems they are planning to revive dot meta.
         And I honestly think Castorice will end up in a similar situation: it’s extremely easy to make a support that’s not working for her, because she is so specific in what she needs: she needs hp, res pen, enemy def shred, vulnerability, and true damage. And all that should work on memosprite as well, ideally without needing to summon it first, because usually its optimal to blast it instantly after it appears. She doesn’t work well with action advance, shields(or other damage reduction for allies), damage%, atk%, skill/ult buffs, anything singletarget, SP recovery, energy recovery. If next 3 broken harmony units happen to not give any of what she wants, she’ll fall off.
         Phainon looks much better in that regard, and it would be quite a challenge to design a future support for a new hypercarry that won’t work with him. Unless, of course, they start slapping a “this buff is removed when leaves the field”, which is entirely possible, but at that point we can imagine similar restrictions for anyone else.

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       • “Male units get the short end of the stick” only apples to the amount of them made not kit wise cause therse no way you can say that when ignoring Gallagher, Sunday, Aventurine being the best sustain for a whole ass year, even Boothill lasted longer than Firefly in most content 😭😭😭and kits have always been shit to certain units regardless of gender, Fugue has a useless ult and EBA, Cipher kit being chopped to bits, Sparkle being powercrept by Sunday whos only new team is now being stuck with a man. The ONLY main benefit of being a waifu player is the amount of teams you can make and even then you’ll still feel like slop without having Aventurine for ur sustain in Feixiao/Acheron without Jiaoqiu/Aglaea without Sunday teams etc. etc. Even Castorice had a shitty all or nothing V1 and is in a similar boat to Phainon, wouldn’t be surprised if they did the same thing they did to her is nerf his mutipliers for the sake of QOL.

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   • While I understand that he has a bunch of restrictions in his kit, he’s just fun to play. I love the idea of solo defeating everything by crushing enemies with a giant meteor. It’s just super unique and fun. If that’s not your cup of tea, then that’s ok. It still looks like he can clear MoC within 5 cycles so that’s all I need.

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   • Logged in after not coming to this website since cast released and honestly it seems to be for the best.

     Dont bother bro, hoyo is playing the long game, they know males dont sell well thats why they make them worse, that way you are “forced” to pull for the crutches that come later.

     Also no point in trying to prove he is dog shit or not, anons kept piling on top of ppl complaining about cast and yet here we are.

     Just remember that whenever a anon makes a comment disagreeing with you, just dont think of them as ppl.

     They are incapable of thinking ahead, they only ever see whats in front of them, thats why they kept saying her global passive was a nothing burger, because they lack critical thinking skills. Yet if we hadnt complained on twt and other forums the 3 new characters might have had global passives, if any character were to have one I would bet my left nut it would be phagnon, given how much he has in his kit. Cast having a self rez feels kinda random if you think about any other MAJOR character after her.

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     • Phainon is honestly the biggest test if HSR male units might have any true hope for them. Because if even Kevin Kaslana gets chopped, despite major issues that his kit has, if his kit gets minimum changes (no changes to what are his issues), and he is left to be “fixed” by some upcoming limited units instead… Yea, don’t expect crap for any male unit in the future then. If this one doesn’t get any form of justice (that is writer’s pet), then all of them are cooked.

       It’s amazing to me that there are those, who claim to care for this character, who seem to defend his current state because pretty animations I guess, not seeing just how downright bad his current kit is. They are literally defending new gen Jingliu and he will age just as badly if left in this state.

       As for Castorice: Her having rez itself was never an issue to me, if this was the thing when she was in the party. The fact that it’s gp is beyond stupid indeed. I also doubt it truly ends with her. I can’t wait for Cyrene precisely because she is the biggest Hoyo’s pet. If she comes without gp, then chances are that Hoyo did rugpull that stupid crap (amen, in that case). If she comes with similar bs to Castorice, then I think that Phainon lacking one is due to being male and not wanting to anger a “particular” CN crowd by giving a male unit such thing. Cyrene will be the ultimate test of if gp isn’t a future threat.

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       • Nobody likes Kevin. Don’t try to correct the records man. It’s only secondaries and “muh aura farming” “””people””” who like him.
         Also Phainon has been a terrible character in story and he’s hogging all of it, his story, his region, his game. At the cost of better people like Anaxa, Midey and Cipher.

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         • speak for yourself lmao

       • Jing Yuan was resisting powercreep since his release pretty much till Amphoreus
         DHIL survived on Sparkle’s and Sunday’s shoulders
         Aventurine is the most universal sustain unit in the game
         Sunday is the best hypercarry support in the game
         But yeah if they don’t remove Phainon’s unique feature and let him zerocycle his ult, it’s all over for male characters, you are right, and everyone who disagrees is wrong by default. After all, having unique strengths and weaknesses, and demanding specific supports is only a downside when a male character is talked about.

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   • Wait, but how is he not the same as Seele in regard to being carried by supports? He retains all the buffs for the entire duration of his ult state. I’d say he might even be the best at being carried by supports since he has self sustain and other characters leave the field when he ults, which would allow for a more comfortable sustainless team.
     Whats the difference between a team where you buff Seele to high heaven and a team where you do the same for him? That he can’t be advanced when he ults?

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     • Apart of stat boost (atk, dmg, crit rate, crit dmg, etc..), supports offer a variety of value when on the field. Tribbie lingsha and hyacine offer personal substantial damage, robin bronya sparkle rmc and sunday offer action advance, and nihility supports offer damage amp through debuffs (but don’t contribute to Phainon’s ult stacks)

       What OP is saying is that you are restricted to use supports on Phainon, preventing any kind of team flexibility, and at the same time being unable to fully use those supports’ potential. This is a Firefly situation where merely one team archetype is used for her, and that led her to fall hard very quickly.

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   • “I’m not doomposting, I’m saying a current fact”
     *Proceeds writing an entire essay of personal opinion*

     Man.. it’s always the self-proclaimed that acts like an a$$ on the internet
     Get a job and help feed your family lil pup!

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   • Bruh…I’m done with ppl saying “bait this, bait that”, as if we act so stupid like every single dps out there need a complete team set to work with. Look at Acheron, Feixiao, any superbreak dps, they can’t do anything without fully support, of course him being restrictive is just normal part of it. “Oh BuT He NeEd sPeCiFic UniT”, What? You think he’s dependent and don’t need help from others? What is this, souls game?

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   • As someone who has access to this Lucilius rip-off, and I refuse to post as anonymous due to most of them being the lowest tier of posters + it’s mostly the same schizo 99.9% of the time, and I don’t want to be under that umbrella: Don’t bother. Time always tells. I’m already laughing at the banana boss. If at E0S1 and you turn off any form of endgame buff that goes in his favor, put him against a boss such as this that doesn’t favor him at all; he takes like 5 cycles with the current HP pool. With RNG, he can make it 4 and barely lol. Now, imagine a higher one and just how much worse it can get.

     Don’t bother. If his annoying simps are happy with this, then let it stay. As someone who couldn’t care less for this bland Gary Stu, I’m not going to cry about his sorry state at all.

     They want him to be this bad? He can stay as far as I care. They better pop out their wallet for his E2S1 minimum or go full E6 because, past his shilling phase, he is new gen Blade at just E0.

     I just can’t wait for the cries about “power creep” as their Lucilius rip-off starts warming the bench despite the fact that he is already taking 5 cycles to clear banana boss, when one turns off any endgame turbulence to make him look better than he actually is. Let us not even go into SOD boss. Unless this wannabe Karna is strong (whale) enough to one-shot both of its phases, then I hope you invested in DPS Tingyun, Bronya, or Sunday meme coin because his supports will be the only ones to fight that boss while this dollar store Susanoo is useless.

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     • People live in the present way too much, not seeing how certain flaw can be a big deal pretty soon (as this game doesn’t shill someone forever).
       Jingliu always felt better than she was due to heavy ice shilling, as well as endgame shilling always favoring her the most. Even DHIL wasn’t as favored, yet he kept up with her. Despite the fact that his team at the time consisted of Tingyun and Yunkong compared to Jingliu being able to use someone as Bronya (the must harmony for every 1.0 dps not Kafka back then). Which always did show that he non ironically was a better unit as he cleared the same as her despite not being as shilled, and having worse team at that time. However, people used to argue against this. Saying you were just salty DHIL player etc (I never even pulled him btw lol).
       Acheron also used to melt bosses using Pela+SW at just E0S0. Lo and behold, break meta starts up and now E0S0 Acheron is being felt. JQ is out next and if you skipped him, have E0S0 Acheron, you now felt it even more. It doesn’t help that Hoyo only cares for “balance” when it is Nihility unit. See what they did to my cat in beta. It feels even more insulting now after THerta, that is basically copy of her kit in a way, except erudition. However, THerta has Acheron’s E2 at her base kit and she can make full use of harmony units. One single harmony can carry a unit a lot (my Seele being the best example). Want to combat powercreep? Invest into your bloody supports. Hence where Phainon’s issue now starts. He needs a specific supports to pop off (one of which is allegedly coming in version later), and then he needs to pray that whatever next broken support releases, works with his kit. Because if take Tribbie, for example, (an extremely strong harmony) she is incompatible as she can’t proc her FUA as often which is literally the most unique thing about her whole kit. Not to mention that DDD tech goes into trash and this again is the best Tribbie tech.

       Tl;dr: I couldn’t care less either. The entire post was about people screaming powercreep about Phainon, when he is carried hard by endgame buffs. “b-but he clears old MOC/PF/AH” my E1 Tribbie who is support unit can clear better than my Acheron in this day and age. STFU as such.

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   • this the most ridiculous pointless argument i’ve seen in a long time. all of you guys need to get the fuck off the internet and do something with your life. no point in trying to change someones mind if they arent open to it. none of these people are, by the way.

     for everyones sake, stop arguing, shut up, and do something useful for once and contribute to a dying world we call society.

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     • Irony of this post. You anonymous users are truly only good for one thing: Peak retardation that equals in entertainment lol

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     • Says the one who is wasting his life on the internet to post dumb shit like this, acting as if he is anyone’s dad when he most likely didn’t even finish his high school yet 🤣🤣🤣

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     • The only thing “wise and mighty” being like you ever did with their life is clearly walk from their bedroom door to their toilet.

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   • He has wings now, that’s enough for me to pull him. Couldn’t care less about moc or any other end game stuff, I play characters who I like. Meta can suck my ass.

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   • Clowns hated the man for speaking the truth

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     • They hated everyone who did the same. Now they cry about v3 after they themselves lead to it with their attitude.

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   • This aged like wine 😂
     I mean, you were right when it was just V1 too despite getting ganged in comments by those who can’t handle the truth due to bias. Lot of Chinese testers themselves pointed out similar flaws in his kit back in V1, explaining even further why he felt bad past his shilling phase despite high multipliers, and why he needed very specific support to ‘fix’ him. One even literally showed him against hard aoe boss, while turning off any endgame buff, and he went down to 4 cycles. With only barely making it. Despite said tester using the same setup + team as his 0 cycle Phainon showcase when endgame buff (ones shilling him) was on. Just to show how hard he is getting carried by these to make him look better than he seemed.
     However. after V3, this post especially is funniest read. Bet that majority in replies feel like giant clowns now lmao

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   • That V3 is pure gore 😂
     Deserved because, when testers themselves complained about how flawed his kit was. How it needed a buff or rework. Telling you y’all not to be fooled by stupid 0 cycle showcases that aren’t showing 1:1 true state of what to expect out of some unit. Even showing why they say that. Phainon’s toxic fans kept attacking them. Showing these very relatable showcases to ‘debunk’ them. Saying how, actually ☝️🤓, he is T0 across the board.
     Nice going. Hope you enjoy what was done to him because of that now.
     I swear, nobody sabotages characters in beta harder than their annoying stans.

     Well, at least now everyone universally agrees that he is garbage after V3. So V4-5 can only be buffs, right? Or maybe not. 🤣

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2. whats the difference between scounge and bruise? what is used for what? also isn’t his skill multiplier much higher than past char even more than single target skills

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   • Scourge and Bruise have the same effect, just different names.

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3. Does he actually use those quantum character ascension materials, or were those accidently put on here?

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   • Just a placeholder, it’s new Physic material that just update.

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4. Hate how my comments post as replies sometimes, ANYWAYS, does anyone know what hus best lc, teamates, and relics are looking like so far?

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   • Relics: the 3.3 set (the one that gives atk) and the new planar that’s based on number of allies
     LCs: His signature obviously, the atk/crit based ones seem fine but I don’t know the math on them
     Teammates: buffers that directly apply their buffs (Sunday and RMC seeming like the go to options) his alleged best teammates are predicted for 3.5 and 3.6: Being Cerydra and DH3

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     • Are you referring to Arcadia of Woven Dreams and Wavestrider Captain?

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     • his current best team is actually sunday, bronya and tingyun, RMC can’t give him enough buffs to quickly charge his ult

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5. Holy s*** this guy’s kit is ridiculously jacked, its almost disgusting. His non-ult skill multipliers are 2x higher than Saber. Can’t believe we were debating about Castorice’s universal support while this guy’s dropping 1200% ATK powered nuke. Honestly the reason why is HSR chara is easily powercrept is because Hoyo is too easy in increasing their multipliers. And their kit is easily enhancing it while having not much of a setback (consuming HP, higher energy, etc) on the character/team. A no pain no gain kit, but the gain is ridiculously higher than the pain.

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   • I think part of the reason his damage multipliers are so high is due to the way his kit works. When he uses his ultimate, you are locked out of using your other team members, so he has to have high damage to make up the difference of loosing 3 other sources of damage.

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     • In a hyper carry situation, teammate’s damage don’t really matter anyways tbh

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       • weve moved away from it now every teammate deals damage, even fat …k deals half a million.
         hypercarry will suffer immensely. especially fireflyesque with fixed turns sustainless on release. its a death sentence

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   • on top of that no other path required like Nihility for Acheron or Erudition for The Herta lmao, and unlike them Phainon’s also very good in single target situation + he can tank

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   • Here we go again, you’re saying this because it’s a male characters. Y’ll dont complaint anything about Acheron, The Herta, and Castorice

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     • Nope, in the last part I complain about all new units onward. I think the power start creeping since Acheron onward. At first it just a simple Atk and Crit stats, still normal for a DPS. Then suddenly a unit can cleanse, buff, debuff, heal and charge energy. Then the multipliers getting higher. Why bother making all different paths when a Firefly can do all of other path function herself? Phainon doesn’t need any other units other than battery, and it isn’t even necessary since his skill can stack charges

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     • a lot of people complained about them too lol. But i agree I don’t think phainon is as OP as people are saying. plus he requires a fair bit of investment, his performance is a lot worse without sunday and robin

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     • Castorice is literally the most complained about character in hoyo history and it isn’t even close. What copium are you smoking?

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       • Castorice is literally the most complained about character in hoyo history – Yet she was released beyond broken and only gotten BUFFS during her beta, now shes tier 0 in ALL MODES.
         Like are you people for f real?
         You receive one broken female after another, after another, after another, but when ONE male char in 2 years isnt complete dog… while he is even nowhere near those females really, you suddenly remember the balance.
         How convenient.

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         • Does not change the fact she was the most complained about character in hoyo history. Guess what that means? PEOPLE WERE NOT OK WITH IT! Jesus Christ.

         • Also no she didn’t get only buffs. She was literally nerfed in V2. You honestly have no idea what you’re talking about.

         • A character gets 10 haters out of 100,000 and people come on places like here and say shit like. “Omg why is everyone complaining no one cared when Cas was power creeping.” When literally 100,000 out of 100,010 were complaining about her power creeping the game. Get your head out of your ass.

   • yet hi still performs worse than most 3.x dps because you know why genius?
     raw numbers isnt everything.
     hes so @#$# slow and handicapped that they dont matter. unless reworked, hes the first candidate to be powercrept in 3 patches top.
     Jingliu also had insane multipliers on release, was powercrept in 3-4 patches

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6. Where do character animations even go from here?

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   • i heard that Cyrene even have crazier animation than this.I mean in a way that pwc both Phainon and Castorice combine. Just a leak but i hope my PC not gonna burst

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   • Might be long long time to “powercreep” Phainon animation both in relevant content & context, especially when Hoyo release his kit as “solo fighter”.

     But creativity is unlimited. They could always make many other amazing animation for HSR combat, because the combat is not “action-oriented”. Consider any ability is just like playing a short clip or short anime movie.

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7. Ok so he works with sunday, does robins ult still go while he’s in his ult? I want to have my team of angels!

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   • I would assume Robin does not synergize with him because his Ultimate will remove the team from combat, which I’m assuming will also remove Robin’s buff from the field as it is kinda like a summon.

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     • you can still hear robins ult during his, im assuming that means it does affect him but i guess we’ll find out

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   • Robin’s ult has its own timer* so it might end during Phainon’s ult; her E is tied to her own turns so that won’t be a problem. And, given that Phainon is the only one attacking, Robin will have a hard time charging.

     *said timer also causes Robin to act immediately upon ending, not sure whether this will prohibit the timer from ending or simply have no Robin acting when it ends.

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8. ALL HAIL LORD PHAINON!!!

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9. His hidden name █ █ █ █ █ is Kevin? 😂

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   • It was already leaked that it’s not Kevin.

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   • dude ur username is crazy

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10. When phainon enters in ultimate he save allies buffs? like crt dmg boost from sunday etc..?

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    • It won’t count as Phainon turn when his transforms takes turn
      And when you cast his ultimate before end of his turn won’t also count his turn too

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    • I think the “extra turn” mechanic simply means all buffs previously to his ultimate are always active during his ultimate mode. I wanna know if Hanya or specially Yukongs buffs are still active during the whole Ultimate (considering she has a massive buff, if not for her horrible playstyle)

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      • For Yukong, definitely. Wavestrider Captain is Phainon’s BiS and the durations for the buff also lasts for 1 turn. I might have to build Yukong now

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      • Actually, now that I’m reading Yukong’s skill, I think I might be wrong. We’ll have to wait for testing for anything concrete, so take what I said in regards to Yukong with a grain of salt

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    • Yes. All the buffs (even 1-turn-lasting) will be active until he’s ult transformation is over.

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    • Extra turns does not cause turn-based buffs countdown; the only exception so far would be Hyacine’s Ika, who has countdown mechanic specified in its kit. Interestingly this means Phainon is also immune to any DoT unless detonated.

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    • From what I understand from what a beta tester told me, is that he snapshots all buffs and they linger for the whole ultimate state (unless changed in v2 and v3), idk about Robin ultimate though.

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