664 responses to “반디”

1. Is running Firefly with HTB, Robin and Gallagher a valid option? I was thinking that if i run robin with firefly i can go for less atk mroe crit

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   • It’s better to run ruan Mei instead of robin. Firefly is mainly a break character which is the main thing HTB and ruan Mei support. Robin mainly supports follow ups and DoT, she’ll be better with Jade

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   • I’m somewhat worried about firefly’s kit mainly cuz fire characters struggle so much compared to others. I do think that break was best for her tho, considering that fire and physical kinda waste toughness. And having so much of it and it ignore defense, and the dmg output actually b based on her break just makes it better. My main issue I think is wish she transformed into Sam when using ult instead of just simply starting combat as Sam. What the point of giving her a sword 😂

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2. Is running Firefly with Robin instead of Ruan Mei a valid option?

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3. So what do you think would be good lightcone choices for her? If someone doesn’t go for her sig lightcone?

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   • indelible promise or any destruction Cone with break effect if they add more

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4. To make things clear I’m listing the damage calculations of different builds of Firefly.

   All of the damage below are calculated assuming the enemy is a single target of lv.95, it has no innate fire weak meaning 20% fire res, and it is already weakness broken.

   Teammates: Ruan Mei, HTB, Gallagher.

   It is also assumed that Ruan Mei’s 66% damage amp is on while ultimate is off. Note that the activation of Ruan Mei’s ultimate does not change the equation since it benefits both the critable damage and the break damage. Since the enemy is broken it is safe to assume that the 15% vulnerability on Firefly’s sig lc is active. Also Gallagher’s 13.2% break damage vulnerability is counted in.

   ———-

   Build 1:

   Main stats: speed boots, crit rate body, atk% rope, atk% orb.

   Effective stats: 3200 atk, 250 break effect, 70% crit rate, 140% crit damage (~28 substats on crit value). How many substats on crit value do you have on your main DPS? That’s a crazy assumption because none of my DPS has so much substats on crit value.

   The def multiplier for critable damage after 30% def shred is:
   1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.3)) ≈ 0.554

   The def multiplier for break damage after 30% + 18% def shred is:
   1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.3 – 0.18)) ≈ 0.626

   The estimated damage for enhanced skill is:
   3200 * 5.25 * (1 + 0.7 * 1.4) * 1.66 * 0.8 * 1.15 * 0.554 ≈ 28143

   The estimated super break damage for enhanced skill is:
   3767 * 6 * 3.5 * 1.6 * 0.8 * 1.282 * 0.626 ≈ 81262

   The total damage of a full salvo of 3 enhanced skills and 3 super break damage from the enhanced skill is: 328215.

   Wow, that’s a big deal of damage.

   ———-

   Build 2:

   Main stats: speed boots, atk% body, break rope, atk% orb.

   Effective stats: 3200 atk, 360 break effect, 5% crit rate, 50% crit damage (zero substats on crit value).

   The def multiplier for critable damage after 40% def shred is:
   1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.4)) ≈ 0.591

   The def multiplier for break damage after 40% + 18% def shred is:
   1000 / (1000 + 1150 * (1 – 0.4 – 0.18)) ≈ 0.674

   The estimated damage for enhanced skill is:
   3200 * 5.8 * (1 + 0.05 * 0.5) * 1.66 * 0.8 * 1.15 * 0.591 ≈ 17170

   The estimated super break damage for enhanced skill is:
   3767 * 6 * 4.6 * 1.6 * 0.8 * 1.282 * 0.674 ≈ 114990

   The total damage of a full salvo of 3 enhanced skills and 3 super break damage from the enhanced skill is: 396480. That’s ~20% more damage than the build 1.

   When Firefly effectively has 432 break effect (~12 additional substats on break effect), the super break damage would be:
   3767 * 6 * 5.32 * 1.6 * 0.8 * 1.282 * 0.674 ≈ 132989

   In this case the total damage of a full salvo is: 450477. That’s ~37% more damage than the build 1.

   ———-

   The build 2 is considered more damage and way lower investment. I don’t think there is going to be an elite enemy who can survive a full salvo, considering the regular break damage and the super break damage from teammates.

   Now you learn it isn’t as rewarding to build crit stats on Firefly than just sticking with break effect.

   Never think about excluding the HTB. Without the HTB, Firefly needs ~8 additional substats on break effect to maintain even the 250 bottomline. That would be way more pressing to obtain the 28 substats for crit value. Also, Firefly is blocked off from the super break damage and you basically needs many eidolons of limited Harmony units to make up for it.

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   • This could just be me, but I think the people who are REALLY pushing for a crit build do so just so they can include Sparkle in their teams instead of Harmonyblazer. Perhaps they invested so much in her they don’t want her going to waste or something.

     I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would choose the harder to build build that also provides a lot less damage than the easier one. Maybe a minor case of masochism? Or perhaps they yearn for some form of satisfaction they might get when a year from now they finally manage to balance all 3? I dunno.

     But as always, thanks for your info uwu

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     • I like crit DPS cuz funny stats but there is really no benefit to critfly
       Also Sparkle can’t even work with her unless your Sparkle is at 170 spd (180 if no RM) which is… quite a lot, good luck getting that AND. a good crit DMG

       HTB is literally free and unless we get a limited super break unit they’re the uncontested best support for firefly

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       • My thoughts exactly xD

         Maybe it’s an inherent hate for harmonyblazer

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         • People just seem to dislike drip. Aventurine and Harmony trailblazer make a great combo. Two of the most fashionable characters in the game. You are going to have a hard time beating their hats. For if the enemies don’t die from their attacks. They will surely die from the drip.

         • They were hated because they slayed 😔

         • i am astounded that people dont like HTB, its literally free while being beyond broken. I cannot understand thought proccess of those people for the life of me

       • Think some are still in the mind set Sparkle is the better Bronya and don’t want to admit. Yeah Sparkle is just not the best support for everyone. That sometimes Bronya or a different support would be better.

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     • 1. Firefly’s high base attack and high attack multiplier lures you into building crit values on her to make the most of it. However it is unobvious that even Kafka had a higher portion of critable damage in her damage composition. Not everyone trusts mathematics more than the instinction. Even me, believed so Firefly wants a crit & break hybrid build, however when I acknowledge the fact that her enhanced skill does 90 / 45 toughness damage instead of the speculated 60 / 30 I know I was wrong. The actual super break damage is 1.5x of my old speculations.

       2. The MC in genshin impact is dissapointing. They have always been bad and unplayable. Even when Hoyo gave them a playable form and immediately it was made obsolete by a new limited character. Some people do not feel safe having the Harmony Trailablazer in their build plan because they are worried that the Harmony Trailablazer will be overshadowed by a dedicated break Harmony very soon, leading to a waste of resources. However I don’t except the same would happen. Some characters do not compete with a copy of themselves but instead work well with them, and the Harmony Trailblazer included. Think about doubling all super break damage listed in my calculations above simply because there are two instances of the Harmony Trailblazer in your team and that would be crazy. ~230k super break damage per strike and that makes every other team laughable in comparason. This is why the Harmony Trailblazer has to be the only one who has super break damage and you shouldn’t worry about them becoming obsolete.

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   • Ah finally, but seriously tho. Why force a critbuild when her kit is fully optimize for breaking. Didnt they see her kit involves ignoring weakness, applying weakness and increase break efficiency. Those three things make it absolutely clear.

     Its only understandable if they’re new players who’s still not familiar how break effect stat work.

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   • Hello! Thx you for calcs! 🙂
     It would be interesting to calculate the optimal combo crit\break build. Compared to full atk\break build. I have already done the relics build:
     3400+ ATK
     360+BE
     58 CR
     130CD
     (OFK it is stats with full party Ruan+Htb)
     I wonder if there will be any profit from this?

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     • That’s literally impossible. You can’t have 60 substats on a character. Even if it’s possible, it’s still better to invest all of them into break effect. Just 12 additional break effect and you get ~13.6% more damage for a full salvo but 12 substats on crit without a crit rate body is simply unimpactful.

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       • E2 Ruan Mei. Ofc it is possible. i calcs 🙂
         It is stats in battle. Not in character menu.

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5. ok, so now that the confusion of firefly’s dps method has more or less been cleared by now, i wanna comment on how confusingly his kit is designed – NOT his power level, her kit design

   for starters, why does she increase the atk multiplier on her skill based on her break effect? it seems kinda pointless since shes not dealing most of his damage via his scalings, rather most of her damage comes from super breaks. and the fact that break damage doesnt scale off dmg% makes the flames afar lc not too great on her…the one that he’s on…though to be fair loads of lcs are like that so

   i still think her break effect reqs are absurd without her sig or indelible, but since my previous calcs forgot that the fire weak planar existed (whoops haha) its actually not too bad. however that 360% is still a lil difficult to reach even with all the buffs – you cannot make the argument of ‘just roll better’ since rng varies from account to account – in my case i usually struggle getting more than one roll into break effect.

   my biggest gripe with the break effect passive is that its just a straight up breakpoint – not somewhat linearly scaling like his atk -> break effect trace – which makes building more break effect feel less like a steady progression and more like a ‘360% or 250% there is no inbetween’ situation

   honestly i feel like the only thing firefly needs to feel complete as a unit is the ability to trigger break dmg on her skill – maybe it already does that, idk, but from what everyone’s been saying i dont think it does. its honestly such a shame, as now he feels very VERY glued to the HMC – ruan mei core, with almost no room to deviate or diversify from it – though boothill and to a degree black swan also feel like this, so its probably not too bad all things considered. i guess hoyo may be afraid of making her do absurd break damage on top of super breaks, which is honestly fair

   that said, i LOVE how frontloaded her damage is – its a playstyle befitting of the “kill everything in that general area over there” molten knight. i also ADORE his animations and overall i do really like the direction that hoyo is taking the weakness break mechanic in – super breaks were a very very nice addition and the fact that it was introduced as a general mechanic means that they will continue to play around with it for the future, which i am very excited for.

   once shes out her enemies shall wish that they can stop one bar from breaking

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6. I still can’t get over the fact that Firefly can be used to run around the world and slash at enemies, but the instant combat starts, SAM suddenly replaces her model with zero transformation. Seems awkward and incomplete, like they forgot to add the animation in there.

   Weren’t her animations supposed to be “premium” like Archeron? That’s what I kept hearing for weeks leading up to the beta release. Even if we’re simply willing to handwave anything the leakers said, why would MiHoYo give the most hyped up character of Penacony the worst animations in recent memory? I really love Firefly, so it hurts alot Q_Q

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   • Is she really the most hyped up character of Penacony? Like genuine question.

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     • I’d say Acheron was more hyped up, but for a different reason.

       Firefly’s hype is because she was made to be likeable. We save her, have a “date” with her, have a close moment of vulnerability, and see her die. It’s all made for us to feel attached.

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       • I guess I have a different definition for hype. I don’t really consider them making us like her in the story as hyping her up xD

         But thank you for your input 😀

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         • The story part applies to Aventurine too, he is THE focus of 2.1 with an insane amount of screen time leading up to his release and one of the best written stories in the game
           But he’s still far less popular than Raiden (sad)

         • 100% Agree. I was so hooked I finished it in one sitting lol

           But ya. 60% of Acheron’s hype was being a Raiden and the rest was cleavage. Aventurine stood no chance lol

         • Yeah gamble man was great. wanted other characters more over him. Since well. I my cast of characters want healers, over shielders. So saving him for a rerun. For he is fun to mess around with when I use him as a support.

   • To each their own. I totally understand your dissapointment for not seing her transform, but I think they totally nailed her combat animations. Top tier design for sure.

     >> 2.1 SPOILER WARNING: I didn’t like the way she transformed back to firefly by fading out of her suit end of 2.1 story anyway. I’d prefer an Ironman type transformation where you see moving mechanical parts, which is much more realistic. Those animations take a LOT of work and design, and wouldn’t even please everyone. They chose the safe route.

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7. I’m completely disappointed with the character design, which was poorly done.
   Green Fairy instead of a fire robot?
   Where are the cool Sam boss level animations?

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   • This comes from unicorn gundam, dude. A red berserker form upgrades into a green fairy form.

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   • firefly form is SAM in its full potential

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   • Standard form for the unicorn gundam is white with a horn. Than if it senses a newtype or if the pilot wills it. Goes into destroyer mode, turning red. Along with a great boost in performance. Allowing it to take control of enemy psycommu weapons. With the green mode being the awaken version of the destroyer mode, that is basically just space magic. At that point. depending on how much you watch.

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   • Agreed!

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8. Firefly build only attack and break effect?
   so many requirements, there is no slot to build critical values

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   • Yes, just forget the crit stats. You won’t get much in return and you lose much more.

     Per my calculation, a Firefly with crit rate body, speed boots, attack rope and attack orb, 250 break effect, and 28 substats for crit value, deals ~30k damage and ~60k super break damage per strike.

     A Firefly with attack body, speed boots, break rope and attack orb, 360 break effect, and zero substats for crit value, deals ~18k damage and ~90k super break damage per strike. If you give her ~28 substats for break effect that’s even much, much more super break damage.

     That’s said, just forget about the crit stats. Building crit on her, that’s nothing unlike building crit on Kafka. Even Kafka had a higher portion of critable damage than Firefly.

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9. Personally, her kit looks quite strange for me. Sure, I am kinda okay with herr normal skill, since it is kinda like Jingliu’s, where you need to use it 2 times to enter enchanced state. just here this “enchanced state” is her ultimate.
   But I am really by what she does in Complete Combustion state, since it looks strange both in what is does and lore-whise. Like…
   Her enchanced skill:
   Implants Weakness on enemy.
   Does tons of damage.
   And… Regenerates HP? WHAT?
   I am not really deep in lore, but Firefly is constantly disintegrating. That is literally the reason. why she joined the Stellaron Hunters. She was created to fight back against propagation, and there was that stuff about her short lifespan. From my understanding, her fighting in Combuster state should damage her, since she was pretty much created for that. And that… would be balanced. Both from gameplay view and lore-wise. Someone, who was made to fight back something hard to kill, and has a drawback of “melting apart”, SHOULD do tons of damage in EXCHANGE for melting down. In fact, she should have a special thing – if she uses skill with insufficient HP, instead of falling to 1 she should straight up die, or fall into coma, or “something”. (only in Complete Combustion, of course) Because melting down – is her *thing*.
   Unlike blade, who CANT die despite wanting to, she is in constant danger to fall apart. And the fact that she might fall apart straight in combat – would look normal.
   It is normal from lore side, AND gameplay side. Sure, it would lock her to only be played with a healer in team, but… does it REALLY lock most of her options? She would still work normal in most team. But now… now she kinda is like blade.
   Blade is special among Destruction units, ecause he is selfsufficient. He almost doesnt spend skillpoints, he doesnt really need a healer, so he can be put into any team. But for that he pays with “Not that big damage”. And that is OK! He doesnt break the game, and he can be used in some teams. He is Balanced.
   Firefly, now, has a battle strategy like Jingliu (2 skills, then 2-3 enchanced skills). She does tons of damage. She doesnt care for enemy weaknesses – she implants it herself. And… she is self-sufficient. Except the skillpoints, of course, she needs those, but it is to much of pros with little to no cons.

   Despite being in danger of melting down in lore, in gameplay, she doesnt lose HP in gameplay, not through skills, at least, because even if she uses 2 skills in row, losing 100% of HP, she survives with 1 HP and a full ultimate, allowing her to advance forward and immediately returning 40% HP,
   This doesnt align with lore, unless they make her “resolve” her problems in Penacony, somehow stopping her from melting down. And even if they do this, this will still look bad from gameplay side, making her overshadow everyone.

   My Idea is to make only her Enchanced skill lose 40% of HP instead of restoring it. And with insufficient HP she will straight up die. But Players can, instead of using a skillpoint to use enchanced skill, that will kill her, decide to use enchanced basic attack, to regain HP and a skillpoint. So she will still be “playable” without a healer, you just wont be able to spam her skill, instead opting to mix in some basics. And for optimal rotations, there would be need for a healer, who heals a ton. Or I dunno, maybe make her HP gain/consumption different. for example, enchanced basic gives 60% hp, enchanced skill needs 30% hp. That seems balanced to me. Much more balanced, than whatever she currently is.

   P.S.: I got this fired up when I red someone mention her being best paired with a shielder. And the idea, that a person with “melting down” disease being paired with a shielder, not a healer – is really, really wrong in my eyes. And I really hope they will fix this issue, in some way.

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   • this is the first time ive seen someone complain that a unit is too OP. Also Blade isn’t balanced he’s just awful. In fact he’s the worst limited DPS, atleast Seele and Jing yuan do something at high investment. Also playing blade with no healer is miserable asf.

     Also why the fuck would you want the Firefly to be more miserable to play just for the sake of being lore accurate lmfao. So glad people who think like you aren’t on the dev team.

     P.S. Firefly is worse than both Acheron and Boothill so saying she’s unbalanced is funny because she isn’t better than both of the current penacony DPS.

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     • Its not that I wanted her to be more miserable for lore reasons, I just thought that locking her into certain teams would be interesting.
       Think about it like this – most DPS can deal high damage, but need certain conditions for it. Some of them need them to have many debuffs (Ratio), some need to consistently kill some enemies (Seele), and some just straight up need 2 Nihility in teams (Acheron). They all can dish out great damage, but need something for it.
       Firefly, however, so far seems to me like a someone, who deals Big damage, Ignores enemy weaknesses, has great SPD boost in kit and quite consistent damage, since she only sits out for 1 turn, because on 2nd turn she gets ultimate and thus action advance. Quite a lot of bonuses for no cost whatsoever, except Skillpoints, of course.
       Her current HP-consumption seems pointless, since it is outdone by her selfheals, which looks really strange for someone with her lore and a Destruction unit in general.
       So instead of that, making her such strong unit by locking her into teams with healers, sounds like not that big of a price, and a price quite fitting for Destruction units. After all, Jingliu has the same condition, she just kills her allies instead of herself, and community loves Jingliu.

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       • I get your point, but I think her kit is good enough like that, she’s already team locked, she literally cannot be used without HTB, I think she already has enough conditions to be played, but that’s only my opinion tho

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   • I agree with the unbalanced part. However, there are some big lore reasons behind this. I’ll try to keep it simple for surface-level lore players.
     Her body produces high quantities of (honkai) energy, while SAM uses that energy as fuel. I believe we can agree on that thus far. However, if we look into other hoyoverse media, we learn that keeping high quantities of energy in the body is extremely dangerous if the user hasn’t been adapted to keeping it by a cultivation process. In honkai they get special genetic modifications to resist this energy, while in genshin they can resist it by holding a vision. So, if we take that concept and apply it to Firefly, a girl genetically modified to produce high quantities of energy, we can deduce the reason her body is damaged by this process is not using the energy, but producing and keeping it in her body. Thus, spending that energy by using her enhanced skill/atk would end up as a temporary relief(heal) to her body. We can also assume her normal skill narrative is not damaging herself as a cost to produce a high amount of energy, but naturally producing the same energy and getting damaged by it.
     As she was intended to work as a weapon in a nonstop war against the swarm, it would make sense for the people behind her genetic modifications to focus on maxing out her energy generation without caring about balancing that out to make her body able to resist it if she ever got a break.

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     • Very, VERY strange lore shenanigans. I am very confused.
       A destruction unit, that is being healed by being in combat… Sounds very strained, in my opinion. She deals big damage, ignores weaknesses and straight up heals ton of hp every turn (except 1 outside of her ultimate).
       Spending energy shouldnt mean “heal” to her body, and… argh. This looks and sounds so clunky.
       I really hope they will explain this further in star rail, so that not everyone has to delve into the hole Honkai universe. And even then, I hope they deal with large overheals in some sort of way. Or maybe, give her some other drawback. Because most other DPS units have some drawbacks, especially the best ones, like Jingliu, DHIL and Acheron.
       I cant imagine, what drawback they could give her. The idea of destruction unit, who deals great damage and ignores weaknesses, but needs a healer in team, sounds very neat. Jingliu is pretty much like that, and it worked well. But what other drawback could Firefly have, if not literally burning out, like her name suggests?

       I REALLY hope they fix this in some way, because the more I think about this, the more illogical it becomes.

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   • Sorry for typos, I like to redact messages after sending them, but this site doesnt have that, which was unexpected

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   • if u want talk about lores then they should fix jingyuan in the first place. lore wise lightning lord deals very insane dmg and even if jingyuan got CC lightning lord can still move. jingyuan can also summon lightning lord any time he wants. but guess what? his gameplay isn’t anywhere near lore accurate. so who cares about lores anyway. if u also want lore then Acheron ulti must always 1 shot kill enemy since she is emanator of nihility. nothing survive from her slash.

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   • me when im in a being braindead competition and my opponent is a lore freak in star rail

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   • me when im in a bad opinions contest and my opponent is a lore freak. they do not need to make a character horribly unsustainable just because you want everything to be lore accurate.

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10. Can someone tell me if Ruan Mei break efficient work with Firefly ?

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    • Yes

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    • yes and its her 2# best support after hmc for obvious reasons

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      • I don’t think that mai is her second best support because of obvious reasons. You’ll most likely want to play her as a hypercarry and due to her not getting to much bonus dmg getting it from bronja is quite good, especially because she already has this much defens ignor. Also, getting twice the amount of turns is way better than 20% more break efficiency. If you play her outside of a hypercarry comp than mei is better but in an hypercarry comp she isn’t. Even Robin might be better than Mai if you think about it.

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    • Yes, also you can say that mei is the best in slot support for firefly

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