1,569 responses to “Firefly”

1. The devs are so determined to bind Firefly and the HTB together, they killed the possibility of Firefly’s builds without the HTB. They also leave no room for a better HTB to exist, as it is confirmed that multiple instances of super break damage trigger separately, and a better HTB only destroys the game by doubling Firefly’s aiready sky high damage.

   I’m glad of the devs’ decision in a few aspects:
   1. It is generous of a gacha game to have such a good main character, to a degree they are the kernel of a competitive team. If it was the Hoyo I know before, the HTB should have been released as a limited unit.
   2. I wish to see Firefly and the trialblazer together not only in the story but also in the actual game. Seems the devs wish the same.

   Reply

     Show (4)

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

   • mean while over in genshin. Traveler. I can shoot bubbles now. Am I useful now?
     Sad music noises.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • im glad that they made her role as a pure break unit clearer though; stops people from getting confused after seeing that >500% multiplier and thinking that crit changes everything like most of the community did day 1. obv sucks that we lost critfly but it is what it is ig…

     i feel like getting a better htb will happen when support units in general get better overall, or alternatively they release a unit that only allows the character in the team with the highest break effect to super break, plus give a bunch of other break-related dmg amps to super buff the super breaks of that specific unit

     also i dont like the fire weak planar – it feels way too specific and enemy dependant to use outside of firefly. imo you could either change it to fire and physical weak – the two elements where break damage is significant – or change the activation condition to ‘when the wearer deals toughness damage’

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • I agree, the planar sets especially are becoming more and more niche, especially since 2.0. I think the devs realized they gave us some strong universal planars with Keel and Penacony for supports and Salsotto/Rutilant/Glamoth for DPS, and are now correcting by giving us some ultra-specific ones. That way, they can give us sets that some people will want to farm for, while not powercreeping sets with each new release.

       The new fire-weak planar is the most egregious example of this, since it’s only locked to fire so they can limit the number of characters who can use it. They don’t want people to get more break effect than Talia for free, and they want to limit the number of people who see 6% speed and slap it on all of their super fast supports. It sucks that it’s so limited, but that’s why they were so confident in giving it 6% speed AND more break effect than Talia. The Izumo set is another good example of this. It’s clearly made for Acheron, and it’s hard to justify putting it on any other DPS. Sigonia?

       5 of the last 6 planars released have been super specific, so we will probably keep getting these kinds of sets in the future.

       Forge/Izumo: Discussed above
       New FU set (Duran): Gives a lot of Follow-Up dmg%, so not an upgrade over Salsotto for some characters
       Sigonia: PF Set
       Penacony: Needs support/sustain + DPS to share elements
       and then Glamoth which is a relatively universal set

       Reply

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

       0

       • personally, im fine with niche relic sets if they provide nuance in teambuilding situations; for example, using glamoth vs using base speed + sparkle or pioneer promoting debuffers in a game where harmony units reign supreme, it feels nice having to make a choice between confining a unit within one team or allowing them to play multiple.

         where i draw the line, however, is enemy-dependent sets – although i would be happy with them usually, the relic grind being so tedious really discourages changing planar sets for different occasions, like the fire weak planar.

         if we were to change the activation condition to ‘whenever the wearer deals toughness damage,’ it allows more units than just firefly to reliably use it, such as boothill, xueyi, silver wolf, future toughness ignore units, while not completely powercreeping talia on support chars like hmc whod prefer to use it as a general option or a full break effect sustain like aventurine

         Reply

         

         0

         0

         0

         0

         0

       • Acheron’s power level frightened me before her release and she wasn’t nerfed during the course of beta test. She got a minor buff that excess “energy” may be stored for a better experience in play. She got a specific relic set 4pc and a specific planar set 2pc for her that have high crit values in total. Seems it is the dev’s intention to make her dominant in power level wise.

         When it comes to Firefly, her initial kit did not frighten me because it wasn’t frightening. Firefly had lower upper limit than Boothill but is way easier and way more convenient to use and way more adaptive to the environment as she doesn’t ask for innate Fire weak at all. She is capable to break the enemies before they had a chance to do anything that should have threatened many other teams, leading to low interaction with the boss’s kit, and in turns, high survivability for the whole team. I took the fact that her damage output might be lower than Boothill for a purpose of balance, since her damage output is still at a high ground and she has edges other than damage. However, the devs still gave her a huge buff in damage wise, and now her damage is not any lower than Boothill while she still has the edges she had. She even has a specific relic set and planar set for her. Seems it is also the devs intention to make her dominant.

         Reply

         

         0

         0

         0

         0

         0

         • Gotta make sure people’s waifus are not left in the dust.

         • While I understand your other concerns, I’m of the opinion that ease of weakness implant isn’t truly as strong of a thing that everyone seems to think it is. It’s there for ease of use when you run into enemies that aren’t weak to your element, so the break DPS can do more damage than a wet noodle in such a fight. You’re still at a maximum 80% resist modifier against such an enemy, unlike when using Silver Wolf, who additionally removes that +20% resist the enemy gets. At 80% base resist, a RM ult puts you at just 5% higher damage than fighting against an enemy that’s naturally weak to fire without her ult, so you can think of brute forcing like running RM without her ultimate. Still decent, but not ideal.

           You can still brute-force content with both Firefly and Boothill using their respective implants, and it would be safer than brute-forcing with someone who can’t defeat the toughness bars, sure. I’d say Firefly’s biggest problem in this regard is that she can both implant on the main target with her skill AND does 55% toughness to any other targets she hits. When combined together, it seems like a bit too much weakness implant/ignore capabilities.

           As for the comparison with Boothill, I initially thought E1 would get deleted or moved to a higher eidolon to give her the niche of “Destruction of SP” for her power. This would give space for higher power in her base kit by giving her a solid downside for that damage. But, it’s getting less and less likely that it’ll happen, especially after her speed buff in V3, and I don’t expect that it’s on the table anymore.

         • I acknowledge that no innate Fire weak meaning 20% base Fire res meaning fewer damage, but that doesn’t really matter. The damage is already high enough to take down an elite enemy without innate Fire weak swiftly that they never got a chance to ever recover the toughness meter once broken.

           When I say “Firefly isn’t asking for innate weakness”, I don’t mean the res part in the damage formula, I mean the accessibility to the break mechanic, which is the very fundamental prerequisite for a break DPS to be able to do any meaningful damage. Boothill still asks for innate Physical weakness ideally, not because he wants to do more damage, but instead he wants more accessibility to the break mechanic.

       • I’m glad Izumo exists because I just slapped it on Ratio and Topaz and got free crit rate for basically doing nothing. Sigonia though like who uses that even in PF?

         Reply

         

         0

         0

         0

         0

         0

         • Oh and Himeko too. I gave her some reject Topaz pieces that work great on her cuz I always use her with Herta hehe

         • Haha I feel you on Sigonia. I can’t be bothered to put it on any of my characters, even though I have quite a lot of pieces from the 3x planar event.

         • I got a few decent Sigonia pieces from the recent double relic event. Slap them on Himeko and her ice puppet aid. Got some nice results, when from 35k score to 40k. Along with clearing way faster. of course might of help, that the robin on that team is now e1 as well. For yeah my team needed the crit damage more than they needed the crit rate.

   • It’s a shame that her personal damage got sacrificed in the process.

     I wouldn’t have minded them cutting off any potential for Crit builds to solidify what she does but unfortunately, in her current state not even DMG% provides any benefit now that all her personal damage is in the 4-digits. It’s really strange when you think about the whole “powerful mech suit” thing.

     HTB’s Super Breaks were a little too impactful right off the bat, and now they’re stuck with it because they almost never go back to patch a character, and they definitely couldn’t do a nerf because it’d feel bad. Imo, HTB is free so it shouldn’t be an issue, but there will always be complaints.

     – – – For a little exercise in actual theorycrafting…

     What they could’ve done was have HTB’s SB damage start at 80%, then rescaled the A2 to add 20/27.5/35/42.5/50% directly onto the multiplier (so it scales from 100% to 130%). This is a significant change that would’ve given them ample leeway. If I were to factor in this multiplier in FF’s current v3 iteration, her damage would’ve dropped to 85.35% of what it is now (RM HTB team, single enemy).

     And so, if I start adding back some of what she lost, and then some:
     – her and her LC’s base ATK values
     – her LC’s and Ult’s Break Dmg Received back to Dmg Received, but also the older lower values
     – returning her Enh.Skill’s base multipliers and conversion rates *and then* uncap the conversion
     Then she would be dealing 92.31% compared to v3 (RM HTB team, single enemy).

     Now if I were to raise her SB multiplier to 70%, then this puts her at 99.92% compared to v3 (RM HTB team, single enemy). The damage breakdown of her Enh.Skill non-Crit / personal SB / HTB SB are:
     – 25.1k / 90.9k / 168.8k = 284.9k total for my modified FF/HTB
     – 5.8k / 66k / 211.2k = 283k total for current v3 FF

     For a 5-enemy fight, the resulting HTB SB would be 129.9k for mine and 158.4k for current v3. This changes the damage done to 245.9k and 230.2k respectively, a slight improvement all thanks to her increased personal damage.

     While I don’t have a “Crit build” sheet for her (I never bothered), I think you might see a similar trend. After all, she lost her Def Ignore so her personal damage wouldn’t really ramp up as much as it used to, but her current ATK:Break gives her more Break and thus raising her multiplier conversion, which should help bridge some of the gap. And then you’ll likely have her personal SB evening it out (or maybe even improving it) in the end.

     Alas, we’re stuck with what we have.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • Majong deals ~40k damage and is way higher than a satelite ion cannon, lol. For damage wise the immersion is already broken and it is no harm to break it even further.

       Reply

       1

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

   • I think this is the same case with Nilou in Genshin where they release an absurdly powerful teams with restricted team members, coming with a catch that these teams’ successes can be controlled by their whim. Just like how Nilou can be countered by cryo shields, anything similar to SU Gepard’s shield or toughness protection can shut Firefly’s current team down. Unless, of course, they add new characters specifically to fix it, which we know they will be 5*.

     V2 Firefly was more faithful to destruction theme of being generalist, now she is way too specialized in one field even more than Boothill and she wasn’t even weak back then.

     While I share the sentiment of wanting Firefly and HTB to be duo, I can’t help feeling that the devs have chosen an easy way out by discarding her original design and simply choose to optimize from her best results as superbreak DPS.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • Nah, every team can be countered by an enemy that was specifically crafted to. It isn’t something to be worried about. Is Acheron weak because she can be easily countered by debuff immunity?

       Also, I have no interest in genshin impact. I don’t want to learn anything about its course of history and I have no idea why it has something to do with HSR. It has zero reference value.

       Reply

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

       0

       • A lot of people play both, which is why people often draw comparisons. So for a lot of folks it makes some sense.

         Reply

         

         0

         0

         0

         0

         0

       • Hey now, our waifu Acheron is at least as strong as Arlan even with her ULT locked. She still has crits and atk relics so she’s not as helpless as firefly.

         Reply

         

         0

         0

         0

         0

         0

       • it has a lot of reference value as a gacha rpg with a system for stats too simmilar between the two that comes from the *same* company

         Reply

         

         0

         0

         0

         0

         0

     • That’s true but at the end of the day you can always just not use her against a bad matchup.

       Reply

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

       0

2. –

   Reply

     Show (1)

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

   • I agree

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

3. Love both FF and BH.
   But am i the only one who is mad/weirded by that FF Eidolon1 is BH´s E1 and E2 combined? Or that BH´s technique affects one enemy, while FF´s affects all enemies, and at start of EACH wave?
   Feels weird to me.

   Reply

     Show (1)

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

   • The fate is inherently unjust. There gotta be strong eidolons and weak ones, in order to make you feel earned when you buy the stronger ones.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • ✨️Inherently Unjust Destiny✨️

       Reply

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

       0

4. is anyone else kinda disappointed with full break firefly? Idk if it’s just me but her initial kit seemed like it was going for a hybrid crit/break dps which would be a neat gimmick (excluding boothill bc he’s effectively a break dps with a little crit buff) especially with the break eff changing the multiplier. Rn I can’t help but feel like there’s a lot of missed potential…
   *not to say her initial kit was effective as a hybrid, i can tell it wasn’t

   Reply

     Show (2)

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

   • I am sure there are like a few dozen of you somewhere. I am sure there is also someone disappointed they can’t put her in Kafka team lol

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • honestly I love the cuff kit and how they gave her an identity while just like acheron being hard to powercreep and also making her be able to just get better from now on just like acheron getting better with each future Nihilty unit, FF can benefit from any possible future break units. if low or high.

     and I do respect others way of playing the game but I’m kinda glad hybrid/crit fly is dead. it was never supposed to be how she was supposed to be played and Devs doubled down on it which kinda made me happy

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

5. In my country it is illegal to have pictures of nekid lolis.
   Is it possible to remove the cutscene and the voyeur cam where you see the loli without clothes?

   Reply

     Show (5)

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

   • I mean if you did the 2.2 story you’ll see Firefly transformed with her clothes on so you could make the argument that she’s wearing clothes. Otherwise maybe there’s a mod for that?

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • She is not a Loli. I know twitter thinks everything that is not a fat land whale is a loli but twitter is a place of brain rot, not a place of correct information. She is first off. way to tall to be a Loli. She is clearly way older than a child in terms of age and maturity. Which the camera doesn’t show anything that bad. Which you must of not seen gundam at all. They do something similar with their whole newtype thing. It used not as a sexual thing but a more spiritual thing.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • So how does that e2 work? She defeats a foe or weakness breaks them. gains a bonus turn. Then next turn, she is unable to trigger it again. On the third turn she is able to trigger it effect again?

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • She’s not a child so it’s not illegal

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • I swear people hang out on twitter to much these days.

       For at worst, she would be a teen. Not a child. Given, I have never seen a child that tall. Does no one understand what puberty is anymore? Again I swear this is twitter fault. Since they will call anything a child over there. Someone with a chest bigger than their head? Ah yes clearly a child. Tall as a mountain, flat as a wooden plank but clearly has adult features? Still a child.

       Reply

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

       0

   • Please tell me you’re joking…. Her height would be around 155-166 CM ? are all the girls’s height in your country are 175-190 CM and considering below that are loli ?

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • Average Eastern European country

       Reply

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

       0

6. 一个巡海游侠，还有忆者🤨

   流萤翻译：开拓者你为什么和他们在一起呀？

   就此离开，没人会受伤😀👉

   流萤翻译：皮诺康尼的梦境很危险，请赶快离开吧！

   否则，你们都会死😡👊

   流萤翻译：皮诺康尼的梦境会为你们带来死亡！

   侦探游戏结束了，你们不该出现在这里🤐

   流萤翻译：不知道，艾利欧的剧本里没写啊！

   开始清扫🤖👊

   我将，点燃大海🔥👊🤖👊🔥

   协议通过，执行焦土作战🔥👊🤖👊🔥

   等回到现实，记得告诉所有人😀👉

   是星核猎手送了你们最后一程😡👊

   流萤翻译：就让我送你们回现实吧，记得感谢星核猎手哦！

   立即处决🔥👊🤖👊🔥

   行动二，执行🤖👞🔥🔥🔥

   行动一，执行🤖👟🔥🔥🔥

   既然如此。。。🤖

   流萤翻译：既然打不过，只好先带走开拓者了！

   Reply

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

7. V3 Calculation:

   Setting:
   – Firefly E0S1.
   – New Relic Sets with 0 sub-stats.
   – – ATK% cloth. SPD feet. ATK% sphere. BE% rope.
   – Base ATK: 523.91 + 476.28 = 1000.19
   – ATK: Base * (1+43.2%*2) + 352 = 2216.35
   – Teammate:
   – – Ruan Mei. E0.
   – – HTB. E4+. In battle with Ult 300% Break Effect (4 Watchmaker + 2 Talia).

   —

   Break Effect (At team DPS phase (All ultimate is activated)):
   – Minion Traces: 37.3%
   – Sig LC (s1): 60%
   – Major Trace (Module Gamma): 2216.35 -> exceed 616.35 -> 60%
   – New Relic set (Iron Cavalry Against the Scourge): 16%
   – New Relic set (Forge of the Kalpagni Lantern): 40%
   – BE rope: 64.8%
   – Teammate:
   – – Ruan Mei: 20%
   – – HTB: 300%*15% + 30% + 30% = 105%

   Total: 403.1%
   In case someone hate HTB in Firefly team: 298.1%

   Quick Reference:
   Trace (Module Beta) requirement: (200% -> 35% 🍞) / (360% -> 50% 🍞).
   Relic Set (Iron Cavalry Against the Scourge) requirement: (150% BE -> 10% Break RES PEN) / (250% -> plus 15% 🍞 RES PEN).

   —

   Speed (At team DPS phase (All ultimate is activated)):
   – Base: 104
   – Minion Traces: 5
   – SPD feet: 25
   – Ultimate: 60
   – New Relic set (Forge of the Kalpagni Lantern): 6% -> 104*6% = 6.24
   – Teammate – Ruan Mei: 10% -> 104*10% = 10.4

   Total: 210.64

   Quick Reference:
   Ult countdown: 70
   Action times = ceil(SPD / Countdown SPD) = 4

   —

   You don’t need to worry about sub-stats for Breakfly after v3 changes. bruh.

   Reply

     Show (1)

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

   • Another thoughts about v3:
     With no cap for conversion ATK => BE.. And base of ~1000 ATK. Any buffs to ATK% give same BE% buff at same time.
     Example: Asta up to 70% ATK buff, will give +70% BE at same time, even Robin ult ATK buff (~1200+) will give at same time 120%+ BE in addition to ATK.. Increaseing both direct and 🍞 damage parts of her enchanced skill at same time.
     And any ATK% substast give BE% at same time (just a bit less than direct BE% substats).

     So they may be not so perfect as HTB or Ruan, but any ATK buffers still works fine with her (unlike with other Break damage characters where ATK looks compleatly useless)

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • Nah, Robin’s attack bonus can’t be converted into break effect, because the buff itself is converted from Robin’s attack, and a converted buff can’t be converted again. The same rule applies when Sparkle skills Bronya and Bronya ults.

       Reply

       1

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

8. some questions
   can we say 50% superbreak from her kit is equal to 50% of HMC superbreak damage?
   does firefly 50% superbreak affected by HMC dance with the one trace?

   Reply

     Show (3)

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

   • Nah, not affected.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • if you consider HTB’s superbreak with the enhancing trace as 100% then yes you can probably can reference 50% from that
     the 50% superbreak from FF isnt affected by the HTB superbreak enhance trace tho

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • without the enhancing trace*

       Reply

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

       0

   • TB’s trace states it enhances Super Break DMG dealt by the backup dancer effect, it does not affect any Super Break not caused by TB’s ult

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

9. so are spd boots still worth going for, or is atk% just better now?

   Reply

     Show (5)

   

   0

   0

   0

   0

   0

   • depending on how much 25 spd or around 40 BE (or less depending on how much atk you have past 1600) would matter.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • Spd boots to get a 4th ult turn

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • 25 speed is exactly what she needs to get 4 turns during her Ulti…
     So if you do not have 25 speed in sub stats SPD boots are very worth it.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

   • Absolutely. With Ruan Mei, the new planar and speed boots, this is your total speed during combustion

     107 * (1 + 0.06 + 0.1) + 25 + 5 + 60 = 214,12

     210 is the speed breakpoint to reach 4 actions in combustion state, you are given this for free. Not having your fourth action would be a pretty big drop to your DPS, so sacrificing an action for more BE is already out of the question. When you have no speed substats to focus on, you can focus on getting BE and ATK% substats instead. Straight up looking for BE + ATK substats, (which are more common than speed) will give you more total BE, compared to using ATK% boots while looking for ~10ish average speed substats to reach the 210 breakpoint.

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

     • You have a typo in your formula. It’s 104 base speed, not 107. Everything else is correct, but the result changes to 210.64.

       Reply

       

       0

       0

       0

       0

       0

   • if you manage to get 25 spd (approximate 13 spd rolls) then sure you can go atk% boots
     but that also means you are trading BE and atk% rolls for spd that you would easily get on a spd boots

     Reply

     

     0

     0

     0

     0

     0

10. is there v4 in upcoming update or v3 is the final changes?

    Reply

      Show (4)

    

    0

    0

    0

    0

    0

    • I hope there is,
      since this update making her skill useless and dont need to leveling
      they might as well remove the enhance state of skill and notthing change

      Reply

      

      0

      0

      0

      0

      0

    • v4 should be next week. on monday.

      Reply

      

      0

      0

      0

      0

      0

    • Should be a V4 but probably won’t be as major, maybe Jade will get some changes but who knows

      Reply

      

      0

      0

      0

      0

      0

    • hopefully they make some changes on firefly eidolons
      e1 especially looks like a major trace QoL to me right

      Reply

      1

      

      0

      0

      0

      0

      • Per my estimation, Firefly’s E1 is more like a pay-for-damage rather than a QoL despite it looks like it is. The comp of HTB + RM + Gallagher is rich in SP and should be sufficient to feed a hungry Firefly. The E1 allows the HTB to skill very often, leading to high energy regen and frequent ult, and frequent S5 DDD, and more turns for Firefly, and… well, more damage. You can even furtherly replace Gallagher with Asta, who may also wield a copy of S5 DDD.

        Reply

        

        0

        0

        0

        0

        0

        • While I agree that in her current best teams it’s basically just 15% def shred, plus more HTB skills, does S5 DDD really give Firefly more turns?

          210 speed just barely gets you to 4 turns in ult, and DDD is a 24% advance, so outside of higher speeds with the aim of 0-cycling, I don’t see it having an impact? I’m also saying this as someone who only recently got DDD, so this could be something I’m just too poor to understand.

          The way I see it, S1 is higher personal damage for Firefly and frees up Aeon for any other destruction character that would want it. E1 gives less personal damage but allows your teammates to use more SP, and especially for HTB to skill more often.

          Reply

          

          0

          0

          0

          0

          0

          • Relateable, still only having a single S1 DDD despite I roll a lot xD

          • Hahaha, I have 2 copies of S5 DDD lol

          • I’m still investigate if Asta + S5 DDD could give her more turns. It seems a bit harder than v2 even the countdown is slower.

            However, you can put Bronya in your team. As long as the countdown is at 70 SPD. If Bronya has a 140+ SPD, which should be quite easy, she can advanced firefly twice during the ult. In this case you may want E1 instead of S1 since firefly may use at most 6 skills in cycle. :p

            btw, you can’t do the same thing with Sparkle.

<<>>