329 responses to “Lingsha”

1. There is one thing, absolutely one thing, that Gallagher can do while E0 Lingsha cannot. That is to allow FF to first turn break an enemy with 160 toughness in the second wave.

   When using Gallagher:
   – At the begining of the wave 2, FF’s technique deals 1.5 * 20 = 30 toughness damage.
   – Gallagher’s combo of ultimate and EBA deals 1.7 * (20 + 30) = 85 toughness damage.
   – FF’s skill deals 2 * 30 = 60 toughness damage.
   The total toughness damage dealt is 175.

   When using Lingsha:
   – At the begining of the wave 2, FF’s technique deals 1.5 * 20 = 30 toughness damage.
   – Lingsha’s combo of ultimate and bunny deals 1.5 * (20 + 20) = 60 toughness damage.
   – FF’s skill deals 2 * 30 = 60 toughness damage.
   The total toughness damage dealt is 150.

   Most elite enemies you may encounter in MoC wave 2 either have a toughness ≤ 150, 160, 200, or 240.
   If it was the easist case, it doesn’t make any difference, as both Gallagher and Lingsha allow FF’s first turn break.
   If it was the hardest case of 200 or 240 toughness, it doesn’t make any difference either, as neither allows FF’s first turn break no matter what you do.
   If it was the middle case of 160 toughness, and immediately things become different. Gallagher allows FF’s first turn break while Lingsha does not, which is a painful difference especially if you have E2 FF.

   The difference can be eliminated by the relic set “Eagle of Twilight Line”. Just build Lingsha’s speed so she advances herself above FF’s first turn, dealing more toughness damage before FF does. In this case the total toughness damage would be:
   – At the begining of the wave 2, FF’s technique deals 1.5 * 20 = 30 toughness damage.
   – Lingsha’s combo of ultimate, bunny, and BA or skill, deals 1.5 * (20 + 20 + 10) = 75 toughness damage.
   – FF’s skill deals 2 * 30 = 60 toughness damage.
   The total toughness damage dealt is 165. Yeah, it is now truly possible to fully replace Gallagher under any circumstance.

   So what is the speed requirement?
   Lingsha’s in-battle speed must be ≥ FF’s in-combat speed * 0.75 or it won’t work.
   7500 ÷ (Lingsha’s speed + 9.8) < 10000 ÷ (FF's speed + 60 + 10.4)
   If FF's speed is 156, then Lingsha's speed must not be any lower than 160.

   If Lingsha wields Luocha's signature:
   7500 ÷ (Lingsha's speed + 9.8 + 12) < 10000 ÷ (FF's speed + 60 + 10.4 + 12)
   If FF's speed is 156, then Lingsha's speed must not be any lower than 157.

   If your Lingsha is E1 or your Firefly is E6, you can safely ignore this notification.

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   • Another profanity is to make use of Feixiao. Just save an ultimate for the begining of the second wave and immediately (1 + 1 + 0.5) * 30 = 75 toughness damage is dealt. If you are lucky you saved two casts of Feixiao’s ultimate then it is 150 toughness damage, my lord. Even the toughest Hooley boss shall crumble.

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     • Reword: profanity -> blasphemy

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2. As someone who has every sustain and having tested her in variety of teams, I can safely say that Lingsha, in current state, is for Feixiao’s team only. That’s the only team in which she can somewhat feel of on upgrade (depending on enemy).
   Having E0 Firefly, she is not good for her. Not because she is bad, but because current Firefly team requires someone like Gallagher for SP printing. I hear that SP Tingyun has SP returning gimmick, so no doubt Lingsha will be better for Firefly then, but as of now, yea. Not ideal of E0 Firefly at all.
   I’ve seen some recommending her for Acheron, and no. Outside of usual SP issues thing, she has worse stacks generator for Acheron than Gallagher and/or preservation on trend. Wouldn’t recommend it, and other teams (like DOT) are absolutely no as well.

   Tl;dr: She is a good sustain, but the issue is that if you already have limited options and Gallagher, she feels like side-grade or even downgrade in certain teams.

   Bonus: For whoever got Luocha’s cone, don’t even bother with her own. His cone is way better on her than her own as it allows you to run BE rope braindead and have perfect ult uptime + you give some spd buff to your team.

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   • Lingsha regularly follows a skill + ba * 2 rotation, meaning the HTB have to do some more ba to afford the SP decrement.

     Lingsha /w Luocha’s sig is something different. The ult comes faster and the bunny’s charges substract faster and Lingsha needs to follow a skill + ba rotation, which is definitely not something for E0 Firefly.

     Lingsha for Feixiao’s team is an absolute upgrade over 4-stars, but what about when in comparason of Aventurine? In my opinion, Lingsha is generally equivalent to Aventurine in most of the cases, is better than or worse than in some edge cases. Lingsha /w Luocha’s sig undoubtably surpasses Aventurine in terms of count of attacks, though.

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     • The issue with E0 Firefly team, if you built your Firefly right which is with very high speed, Lingsha will fight for SP mostly with her.
       Extremely high speed Firefly can go twice in the same row due to speed breakthrough.
       Meaning, if you remove Gallagher from this team, SP will very much become an issue. Which is why in my tests I either had Lingsha clear in the same amount of speed as him at best, at worst she felt worse. I hear that SP Tingyun has SP returning gimmick, which would be perfect for Lingsha in this team.
       But right now? Personally I wouldn’t use her in my own Firefly team unless it is very specific enemy.

       As for Lingsha Vs. Aventurine: Like I said, it depends on enemy.
       I’d say that any enemy with lots of debuffs that could possibly result in some form of stun, Makes Lingsha better pick than Aventurine. Since there is no rng with her cleanse like with his effect res. Unless you have something like E4 Robin, you always play Russian roulette if your unit will be stunned or not with Aventurine as your sustain.
       At best, enemy will target either Aventurine or Robin (during ult state). At worst, your main dps like Feixiao or Ratio might be target, and if they fail to resist, well…… I don’t need to explain.

       Another thing that I would give Lingsha over Aventurine in this team is that she is bound to be more consistent in her own attacks than him on average. If you are dealing with enemy that doesn’t attack too often, Aventurine doesn’t get to stack. If he doesn’t stack, he starts being less consistent.
       Lingsha has no such issue. Bunny will go. It will go even crazier with Luocha’s cone, or Natasha’s cone at S5 (if you got it). Not to mention toughness reduction if there are fire weak enemies.

       The beauty of Lingsha overall from my tests is that she feels like every limited healer so far, but with better gimmicks.
       Like Luocha’s emergency healing at no SP cost? She got you covered. Except even better because her emergency is aoe and you don’t need to wait 2 turn cd for it to be up. See your ult? Press it and you get it again and her ult is piss easy to get up all the time with right cone.
       Like Huohuo’s braindead cleansing? Again, girl got you covered. Except she can do it at 0 SP cost whatsoever because when bunny jumps, that’s it, and you can speed bunny up with ult, which is very easy to get.
       Like Gallagher and how stupid he gets in BE teams? She is even better. The only issue can be SP issues, but there are ways to work around this, plus SP Tingyun is literally at our doorsteps since she is in 2.7.

       To wrap it all up 😊: She is in my opinion the best sustain in this game as of now. I dare call her better than my Aventurine. However, she is also a luxury pick if you got two good sustains covered up. Unless you are like me that can afford this luxury, I wouldn’t recommend going for her just for semi-upgrade over your other sustains.

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       • E0 FF’s team is SP hungry, that’s true. For now we know nothing about the 5-star TY, if she will be made for FF, if she will address the SP issues. But there is something can be done on our end from now. Maybe try the 3-star light cone “Multiplication”, which gives 20% action advancement when the wearer does a BA. The bunny isn’t exhausted any faster if Lingsha gets more turns. Or maybe try to not use Luocha’s sig or use a break rope instead to maintain a 3-turn ult rotation, since a 2-turn-ult rotation actually exhausts the bunny faster and makes Lingsha less SP friendly. My FF is E2 so I can’t do any tests for you.

         I’m glad the comparason of Lingsha vs. Aventurine in the FUA comp doesn’t sound like a profanity here. The last time I shared my opinion somewhere else, my post was sieged by those who don’t want to learn anything about any of the girl’s good so they can safely skip her banner and those who don’t want the boy to be challenged at one of his best-suited teams for some reason.

         It is common, that every limited sustainer will be doubted and they end up prove themselves in some way. That’s due to the nature of sustainers. The primary objective of a sustainer is to sustain, and you can do it if you pilot well your f2p sustainers, in which case the limited sustainers only serve to ease your play. You absolutely don’t need more than 2 limited sustainers to sustain, in which case the only thing a brand new sustainer attracts you besides look is the gimmicks, which for most of the cases doesn’t feel like a huge enough upgrade when compared with to just get one more eidolon on the DPS or support. A sustainer just can’t be good in this manner, or what is the purpose of Harmony. Which means, a limited sustainer is naturally inattractive and skippable. What I do not understand is there are always numerous people who keep denying the good of a unit they plan to skip and everyone who preaches any of the unit’s good are viewed like a dishonest salesperson. Not just Lingsha is the victim, any future unit can be, and I do not understand what may have caused this behavior among a huge population.

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         • It’s classic mental gymnastic whenever people can’t pull a certain unit. Pretty much every unit had their doompost.
           Even units like Ruan Mei and Robin had crazy doomposting. Especially Robin. I lost the count of how many times I heard people call her FUA only harmony. Even though she works with literally any team.
           It’s only recently that people stopped coping about her and admitted that Robin is pretty cracked. Mostly because they discovered that they can slap QPQ on Gallagher and abuse Robin’s cracked kit in every team with zero issues lol

           This is why I say that even though I consider Lingsha best sustain so far (in my opinion), I would never advise pulling her if you have good sustains already because sustains are always just semi-upgrades compared to what dedicated supports like buffers and debuffers can do.
           Huohuo for example has better kit than Luocha, but at the same time same Huohuo has pretty much same clear time as him in something like DoT team. Why? Ruan Mei matters way more. As does Swan and Kafka. As long as these three are good to go, 4th slot is just a bonus. I dare saying that Gallagher on QPQ and 160+ speed is even better than Huohuo in this team as he can generate even more energy on average and can help with breaking when enemies are fire weak (which current content has a lot). Him printing SP like crazy also helps. Hence why I had faster clears with him sometimes than my Huohuo in this team.
           Certain teams might not even need said sustain even at E0 level. Firefly is pretty much such unit. She can pull sustainless run easily.
           So to anyone who can’t/doesn’t want Lingsha, there is no need to cry about her. Especially when people call her good lol Which is why I made my post to make it more clear on where Lingsha currently stands. Especially in comparison to other sustains.

           As for SP Tingyun, I’m merely mentioning things I’ve heard she might do that more or less come from trusted sources.
           Of course, we shall see once beta for 2.7 starts and we have better idea of what she does.
           But from the things that I heard, she seems great for SP economy in your team. Which will for sure allow Lingsha to shine even more.

3. A good character and great pick up point for those still missing 5* sustainer, otherwise Lingsha is mostly luxury upgrade for superbreak teams. Offering higher break damage bonus and AoE compared to Gallager. While Gallager himself offers more SP for HMC to spam more skills, leading to fairly similar team DPSes between the two depending on content type.

   That said, with the upcoming Rappa and enemies having shared HP mechanic, Lingsha will likely get more spotlight for a while. Such is the way of marketing.

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   • Considering Lingsha does more damage than HMC and Gall put together, i’d say her using the SP over HMC is recommended anyway lol… not really a negative. Plus another superbreak support coming out soon which has a support skill so likely to be SP positive.

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     • “does more damage”

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       • Maybe the missed my screenshot down below? You know where she did 700k damage in a single hit? Yea that one. Or maybe 700k is not good damage for you? In case wow very impressive.

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         • Holy shit dude. You seriously are arguing that a premium 5 star character with a dupe and signature is better than a free 4 star character?
           As if not everyone and their mothers who play gacha didn’t know that already. It’s never been a question of power of Lingsha, it’s more about cost efficiency. With the screenshot you kept showing off, and according to Dazz guy, it’s E1S1 character. With that same investment, an average player could get a whole new popular team fully running with their signature lightcone. Firefly+ Ruan Mei, Acheron + Jiaoqiu or Feixiao + Robin.

           And guess what could be somewhat comparable of that investment? It’s E2S0 Firefly.
           Now you guess who’s needing who then, does Firefly need Lingsha at that point? Or is it Lingsha who needs Firefly for fire weakness implantation?

           But guyyyyyyys, you have to be the best of the best in this single player game where power is directly tied to relic RNG and wallet. Like, come on, dude.

         • You say this as if people are not saying Lingsha using SP is not a negative. As if the person above me said Lingsha is not good in a Firefly team due to using SP that… HMC wants to use. Yea, E1/S1. But E0/S0 still does nearly 500k as well. Literally no one else is talking about the damage she does.

         • Not person above me. The comment above the original comment.

         • What target are you testing to get over 500k? Because it would be extremely biased if you used Feixiao boss as benchmark.
           From my experience against Penacony weekly boss and some MoC/AS, E0S0 Lingsha does not match HMC superbreak damage on 1-2 enemies. Only against 4+ enemies can she match and maybe surpass HMC+Gallager combined.

         • I’m not talking about per hit lol. She does 6 hits. HMC does 2. There is a BIG difference there. Sure vs 1 she does less per hit, but she also does 3x more hits. Vs 2 she defiantly does more than them both.

         • Again, I asked which target enemy you tested. And I never said anything about it being damage per hit.
           Because I can not replicate as you claimed about Lingsha on my tests. And the more I look into it, it just doesn’t make sense unless you geared Lingsha differently on Gallager, or fighting non-imaginary weak enemies, to which would nullify the credibility in the first place.

           Assuming what you claimed above about 2 targets and E0S0 Lingsha’s “6 hits”;
           HMC doing 2 basics 2*(10), Lingsha skill-basic-ult (20+10+40), rabbit 3*(20+10) = 20+140 to a total 160 toughness damage
           HMC doing 2 skills 2*(20+30), Gallager doing basic-ult-enhanced-basic (10+40+30+10) = 100 + 90 to a total of 190 toughness damage, 218 if Gallager is E6

           Even considering the difference between 25% and 13.2% break damage taken from their passives, it’s just too much.

         • My Lingsha skill does 80k per enemy, her ult and follow up does 160k per enemy. My HMC does 170k vs 1. My Gall does 40k normal, 80k ult and 150k enhanced normal. These are the damage numbers my chars do. I am not doing spread sheets here. Lingsha is tested vs an enemy with fire weakness. HMC is tested vs an enemy with Imagine weakness. This is done with E1/S1 Lingsha.

           Vs 1 Lingsha hits 800k, HMC does 340k and Gall does 310k. (HMC does do more with Lingsha due to Lingsha’s own buffs but she does not have them when we compare Lingsha vs HMC + Gall.)

           As for toughness damage dealt. Lingsha does 20 on skill, 40 on ult and 40 vs 1 on follow up. On all 6 hits she does 200 toughness. While giving 25% break damage bonus, having 200% WBA thanks to herself and RM, 20% def red and 18% Vuln all from herself.

           HMC does 2* 6 hits, the first dealing 2x toughness. So (30+15*5) x2 = 105 with 150% WBA thanks to RM.
           Gall does 4 Hits total dealing 80 toughness more or less. giving them both 15% break bonus while having 170% WBA thanks to RM.

           No idea where you’re getting HMC doing 160% toughness damage by herself. Are you giving her the 2* bonus on all 6 hits? Coz she only gets it on the first hit even then still seems too high. Other than that idk what else to tell you, these are the numbers i saw. Though tbh i am using numbers from Gall and HMC that i remember doing a few dozen times and numbers Lingsha dealt yesterday.

         • Wait i think i did something wrong there. Did i give HMC more than they should have? I legit just woke up so idk… Brains kinda a mess since i also have a cold/fever. In kinda a daze and it does not help that i am trying to use game numbers when this site uses 3* said numbers ect ect and with my current brain fog i can’t math.

         • You know what, you do you. If you’re not even going to bother reading responses and just keep changing variables and narrative, I’d say let’s move on.

         • Changing what? I said what i fought against. I did loads Want me to name all 20 enemies and levels or something? Bloody hell…

     • Yeah just pull every 5 star in the game lulw. Great advice. Literally advocating for every, single, character.

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       • How am i doing that by saying “Lingsha does more damage than HMC so it’s not a bad thing that she uses the SP instead”? Telling people top pull her? I’ve never once said for anyone to pull her. Pull for who you like. Never said anything different.

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         • When people don’t want to pull for some unit they feel more like to hear about that the unit is weak, the unit is not worth it, the unit is skippable, etc. Any voice such as the unit is strong, the unit brings a huge benefit are unthoughtfully opposed against, as if someone trys to dececeive them to pull for a unit that is not worth the pulls increasing the likelihood of their microtransactions.

   • Didn’t bother to read the full argue here. Guess it was something like some who believe that the benefits replacing Gallagher with Lingsha is not worth the pulls and feels like a premium upgrade while someone else holds an opposite opinion but has already invested into E1S1 for Lingsha which made it in turns looks premium instead.

     As someone who got E0S0 Lingsha, I can say that she’s definitely stronger than Gallagher. I can’t even expend 150 AV in the first wave because the enemies simply die too fast, which I never observe when using Gallagher. In my opinion, FF’s comp /w Lingsha >>> FF’s comp /w Gallagher, that’s true, but Gallagher is still enough for the use, and the difference between him and E0S0 Lingsha, maybe 50~100 AV?

     The math can only get you numbers, can never get you the answer if it is worth it to do something. If it is worth it is always up to you, subjectively.

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     • Tbf it helped with me because i was getting Lingsha for 2 comps rather than 1. 😛

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     • As a person who loves reading shitty internet dramas, it is with disappointment to inform that this shit isn’t even a real argument and I regret reading them.
       Tldr; yeah, you guessed right

       It went along the line of something like this;
       A: “Lingsha is good and an upgrade, but Gallager is still competitive because Hatter can help deal damage to fairly similar effect.”
       B: “Nah, Lingsha > Hatter + Gallager damage-wise, not negative.” -‘negative’ being first mentioned here despite A’s statement said “fairly similar”.
       C: “Surrrre dude” *quoting B, expressing doubt or mock*
       B: “700k of my screenshot is not good enough for you?” -refers over to E1S1 Linsha against Feixiao boss screenshot
       D: “Dude, everyone knows Lingsha is an upgrade, but I’d rather get a whole new team or E2 Firefly instead of E1S1 Lingsha.”
       B: “Then why are people saying Lingsha using SP is negative? Even E0S0 can do 500k!” – the only one used ‘negative’ is literally just B him/herself
       A: “Hey, how’d you get that juicy 500k on E0S0? Tell me more. My Lingsha doesn’t out damage Hatter spamming skill on 2 enemies.”
       B: “Not per hit, you doofus. But Lingsha definitely outdamage both Hatter and Gallager vs 2 enemies.” -ignoring A’s question, while disagreeing
       A: “Come on man, tell me more how you tested that, my dumbass couldn’t do the same with my E0S0″ *proceeds to create scenario according to B’s claim and tally toughness damage comparison between Hatter+LingshaE0 vs Hatter+Gallager.* (I went into the game and can confirm that A was using in-game toughness unit instead and the calculations seem to be correct.)
       B:”Here’s what I saw on the screen with my E1S1 Lingsha. And that Lingsha deal more damage than Hatter+Gallager combined on 1 target. ” *presents damage number of E1S1 despite talking and questioned by A of E0S0 performance.*
       (Here, B’s calculations of toughness damage on Lingsha is correct, but incorrect for both Hatter and Gallager. E6 Hatter’s skill should deal 1+6 hits, not 1+5. And Gallager should be doing 119 toughness instead of 80 according to that format.)

       Finally, A got fed up and proposed to drop the topic to which B claimed to already did more than enough.

       To expand on what might be why;
       A requested to know methodology from B twice, got ignored and presented with different numbers each time instead.
       B agreed Lingsha HMC+Gallager vs 2+ enemies. Which B later changed that Lingsha > HMC+Gallager even vs 1.
       B misread A’s calculation of HMC+Gallager toughness damage, seeing it as HMC only instead. – this small things matter
       A conducted scenario according to B’s claim vs 2 enemies and E0S0, got answered with E1S1 performance instead.

       So yeah, it’s literally just two people trying to exchange information and failed, I have to say though that one of them likes reading more than the other.
       Thought I’d be able to glean some nice tips from all this shit, but oh well.

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       • I knew I am not patient enough to read it whole at a first glance so I simply scanned over it at a speed of 10 lines per glance for a couple of keywords.

         I guess the word “negative” in Reina’s words stands for “cons”, or “something to be worried about.” The whole speeking sounds like, “Lingsha has a worse SP economy than Gallagher but that’s not something to be worried about, you earn more than you lose feeding her SP that usually have been fed to the Hatter.”

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         • If you ask me, it is a fair point, but people preserve the rights to be worried about anything and to skip a banner for any reason. If someone would rather skip Lingsha regarding the upgrade not huge enough then I won’t judge them, I skipped JQ’s banner for the same reason, depite the true reason in my mind is that I don’t like him enough. I don’t get a unit I don’t like enough no matter what.

       • You got some things wrong on what i was trying to get across. Though ig if you could then it means they probably did as well…

         At E0/S0 i meant Lingsha needs 2 enemies to outdamage HMC + Gall but at E1/S1 she can do it even vs 1 as well. I was going back and forth and not really explaining myself well.

         I posted that i messed up with HMC and Gall, in brain fog due to a big cold so i’m not at my best here. TT-TT. Though now the numbers match up better. Total damage is 800k for E1/S1 Lingsha and 650k for HMC + Gall afterall. Would make no sense if Lingsha has 35% more damage bonus than they do and more toughness to be only that bit stronger.

         I was thinking the entire time just to leave it as i can’t really think straight atm…

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         • Though tbf idk how i screwed up the Gall toughness damage so much… i don’t even remember what i did…

         • @Jetsteamed Yam Sorry about before. My heads cleared up a bit so i can do better this time around…

           I did HMC and Gall wrong in more than 1 way. I may also be wrong about E0/S0 Lingsha being > HMC + Gall vs 2. (But still does it with LC though not if you also give Gall her LC.)

           HMC has 150 per cycle, Gall has 119 per cycle = 269 toughness damage. HMC has (30 + 7.5*6) x2.
           Lingsha has 150 per cycle at E0 vs1 and 200 at E1. At E1/S1 she also gives 50% more damage bonus than what HMC and Gall get. While E0/S0 only gets 11.8% more break bonus than what Gall himself offers. As a result it’s almost as if she has 300 toughness damage at E1/S1 compared to them. Thus she does more damage than HMC and Gall put together in a 0 cycle vs 1. At E0/S0 however she doesn’t. Vs more Gall gains 34 more toughness to each enemy due to the ult being the only AoE hit. While Lingsha gains 105 more per enemy. (140 for E1)

           v2 Gal + HMC 303. Lingsha 265. When factoring in their break damage bonus. It’s as if Gall + HMC have 343 while Lingsha has 331. As a result while it’s close, Lingsha at E0/S0 actually loses v2 to HMC + Gall, so i guess i was wrong there. (E1/S1 Lingsha has 340 v2 with the 50% bonus damage she has over them it’s like she has 510.)

           She still wins the rest though and easily at 4 or 5.
           v3 Gall + HMC 337. Lingsha 370 (E1/S1 has 480 feels like 720)
           v4 Gall + HMC 371. Lingsha 475(E1/S1 has 620 feels like 930)
           v5 Gall + HMC 405. Lingsha 580(E1/S1 has 760 feels like 1140)

           With that i put this to rest from my end.

4. @Waifu Invigilator

   If Tingyun 2.0 does end up being far better than HMC for Superbreak. Then you may need to rethink Firefly and Lingsha on your tier list. :eyes:

   https://imgur.com/a/a9mAMzi

   https://imgur.com/a/1khmEqy

   Borrowed a Firefly, with my E1 Lingsha. (I know E1 is >>> E0 but i’d imagine Tingyun would buff her even more than her personal E1.)

   I have a few theories about how they can make Tingyun.

   1. Debuff on enemies that makes them take extra damage based on the BE of the attacker. Meaning even without being broken you’ll be seeing ok damage numbers. It won’t be too high without superbreak, but with super break it would be MASSIVE. (Boothill would also love this right?)

   2. Debuff of enemies to increase superbreak damge taken. Only good for superbreak unlike the first one but it would be just as good with superbreak.

   3. Debuff on enemies to simply take superbreak damage when attacked. Lamest one and one that’s too close to normal HMC so SKIP!

   What do you think? I hope it’s n1.

   Tingyun could then just like RM increase weakness break efficiency but in a debuff form.

   Naturally Tingyun would be just like JQ here, it would summon a field that can even go though phases and has 100% up time.

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   • Any of the above end up kicking the sustainer out of the comp rather than anyone else.

     For now the Firefly’s comp does not really need a sustainer, as the enemies will be weakness broken and vaporized before they pose any threat. Gallagher / Lingsha is in the comp solely for toughness substraction, thus effectively a break efficiency support. You rarely want their healing and cleansing. Asta and Himeko can also be slotted in if you can afford the SP cost but they simply don’t do as much toughness damage as Gallagher.

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     • Meanwhile, this feature is apparently not designed for 0-cycling, as the enemies will die before they pose any threat anyway given you had the damage to 0-cycle.

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     • Didn’t you just see Lingsha compete with Firefly in terms of DPS? If Tingyun offers no DPS, she would not push Lingsha out of the team. But HMC who does 1/4th the DPS that Lingsha does.

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       • No matter how many potential super break damage after the enemies are broken, the primary objective of anyone else in the comp is to substract the toughness meter of the enemy before Firefly does. Lingsha E1 does good job in this manner, but the damage after the enemies are broken is something like “win more” which you don’t really need it. What you really need is to “win faster”.

         Assuming TY passively gives +50% break efficiency and whose ultimate deals 20 AoE toughness substraction just like JQ’s, and that already surpasses whatever Lingsha’s E1 can offer.
         • FF’s technique: (1 + 0.5 + 0.5) * 20 = 40
         • TY’s ult: (1 + 0.5 + 0.5) * 20 = 40
         • FF’s enhanced skill: (1 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5) * 30 = 75
         And immediately 195 toughness damage is dealt.

         With E1 Lingsha.
         • FF’s technique: (1 + 0.5) * 20 = 30
         • Lingsha’s ult + bunny: (1 + 0.5 + 0.5) * (20 + 20) = 80
         • FF’s enhanced skill: (1 + 0.5 + 0.5) * 30 = 60
         The total toughness damage is 170.

         Which means, if the enemy had a toughness > 170 but ≤ 195 then the fictional TY allows FF’s first attack to break the enemy while E1 Lingsha does not.

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         • You’re missing something big here. RM+Tingyun with both Firefly and Lingsha E1.

           As i just said below, Lingsha can sometimes offer even more DPS than Firefly can due to her getting 6 attacks per cycle. Vs multiple enemies ofc, vs 1 it’s obviously not close.

         • You gotta keep in mind those pics i posted.

           Lingsha 700k
           Firefly 1.1m.

           Lingsha boosted Firefly’s damage by 50% here. Take that away and Firefly would have only dealt 726k there. Meaning Lingsha’s damage is right next to Firefly’s there. Meanwhile Lingsha aslso does more hits…

         • 726k to 1.1m is possibly the result of 25 vul + 18 vul + 20 def shred, which is a fare difference replacing Gallagher with E1S1 Lingsha, it is just the might of money.

           FF’s enhanced skill damage vs. single target is as much as Feixiao’s ultimate, that already punches through the MoC for most of the time. You only need to shorten the period before she can do that damage. Lingsha’s damage is probably relevant vs. the 2.5m boss in the 2.6 MoC when 0-cycling. It would be a hard time for FF /wo LSh to 0-cycle it. But note that the boss is made so Lingsha’s damage is relevant. When fighting the Aventurine boss you can barely find her damage any relevant which is a more common case.

       • The HTB offers not only 120%~160% super break damage conversion ratio, but also a high amount of break effect nearly 2x of a break rope and it is required for FF to reach the 360 threshold. They also recharges the ultimate rather quickly and allows many extra actions for the whole comp with DDD which a Nihility unit can never access. Even though their toughness damage are only against Imaginary weakness, that doesn’t really make Firefly suboptimal vs. non Imaginary weak, the HTB’s toughness substraction and damage are just some strawberrys on a huge birthday cake.

         Meanwhile, Topaz offers 50% vul for FUA damage, has some damage and attack frequency on her own, and that’s it. Nowhere to begin with for Topaz to compete with the HTB in terms of power.

         If TY is something made to replace the HTB then they have to have ≥ 160% super break damage conversion ratio, ≥ 120% teamwide break effect bonus, some action advancement for the whole team as if she had a built-in S5 DDD, high toughness damage, and more. If this is what they have in their kitchen then I’m dare to say it is cooked to replace Lingsha, not the HTB. A HTB clone is crazy, do you know?

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         • If TY offers 200% more superbreak then the damage HTB offers to Firefly would be a 50% boost. Lingsha does that too. (I know this is a hypothetical.)

           HTB DPS is not even close to Lingsha’s however. As for the break HMC offers, it’s 78% for me. No where near 2x Rope… The Firefly i am using has 464 break effect alr. Meaning 78% is around a 20% damage buff.

           HTB 350k damage per cycle. 70% damage buff. (Due to diminishing returns.)
           Ling 800k minimum damage per cycle 3m maximum damage per cycle. 50% damage buff.

           This ofc is not counting any increase Tingyun would offer to their personal DPS.

           Though ofc i cannot account for DDD.

         • Not only super break, but 120% break effect.

           My E2S1 FF has 2510 attack, 200 BE, 156 speed, and 70% effect res. The BE /wo the HTB would be:
           200 + 0.08 * (2510 – 1800) + 40 + 20 = 316.8
           Meaning I have to sacrifice some speed or effect res in exchange for BE in order to reach the 360 threshold.

           Case 1:
           Damage multipliers /w the HTB would be:
           2.1 * 5.368 = 11.2728

           Case 2:
           Damage multipliers /w the hypothetical TY who gives 200% super break would be:
           2.35 * 4.168 = 9.7948

           Case 3:
           /w TY & HTB:
           4.1 * 5.368 = 22.0088 (~2.25x than the case 2)

         • This is why I won’t believe the HTB would be replaced.

           FF = Feixiao
           RM / March = Topaz / March
           HTB = Robin
           LSh / Gall = Aven / Gall

           Interestingly, the secondary picks of the two comps just mirror each other.

         • That’s not true… HTB offers 30% BE + 15% of their own. If they have 300% BE after other buffs, they would give 30 + 45 = 75… Where are you getting 120 BE boost from?

           Also no, i am not saying TY would only offer 200% SB, but 50% WBE as well as something else. Her kit is going to be stacked af.

           In the case you posted HTB would be above TY and TY would be a stupid pull as it would be weak as hell lol…

           Something like. 200% super break, 50% toughness damage taken, another 20% Def red and even some extra break damage ontop of that minimum Imo.

           Firefly alr has 60% super break.

           Minimum with TY Firefly would have 260% super break. 120% super break ontop of this is around 46% damage buff from that. Than another 20% damage boost due to the extra break damage.

           200% BE on Firefly at base is really low… idk anyone else who even has a Firefly below 250%…

         • My HTB has the watchmaker set 4pc, kalpagni set 2pc, and 112.2 BE out of battle.

           Let’s exclude the technique, the BE in battle before the E4 would be:
           112.2 + 40 + 20 + 33 + 30 = 235.2

           And the BE offered to FF would be:
           33 + 30 + 0.15 * 235.2 = 98.28

           Very well, that’s not close to 2x break rope, that’s ~1.5x break rope.

           Recalc my last post:

           Case 1:
           Damage multipliers /w the HTB would be:
           2.1 * 5.1508 = 10.81668

           Case 2:
           Damage multipliers /w the hypothetical TY who gives 200% super break would be:
           2.35 * 4.168 = 9.7948

           Case 3:
           /w TY & HTB:
           4.1 * 5.1508 = 21.11828 (~2.16x than the case 2)

           It doesn’t really shift my conclusion.

         • That’s because you’re still not counting the other stuff i said TYY would likely have at minimum as well…

           Also why would you got have RM running that set and HTB the superbreak damage boosting set?

           Imma just post my calcs with testing Lingsha vs Gall.

           Firefly damage 500k x3
           HTB damage 170k x2
           RM 30k x2
           Gall 40k x2 + 80k + 150k.
           Total 2.2m.

           Firefly damage 750k x3
           HTB 235k x2
           RM 45k x2
           Lingsha 80k 2 160k x6.
           Total 3.9m Total increase with Lingsha over Gall = ~80%

           From my calcs HTB is less of an increase than Lingsha E1 is.

         • Lingsha vs the 3 Mechs in MoC 10 killed p2 instantly. After p1 ended i went and started with my Lingsha ult just coz. My ult didn’t do much damage since it just dealt a lot of break, the follow up however did a ton breaking all 3. After the follow up and the extra damage they take after all 3 are broke they only had 30% left. The skill i used after that finished them off. Legit killed them faster than Firefly can.

         • When my FF punches as hardly as Feixiao’s ultimate, It doesn’t really benefit much in damage with 50% additional BE when you have so much BE.
           5.5508 / 5.1508 = 1.0776…
           So it is ~7.8% difference in damage.

           Therefore I built speed and effect res.

           My FF is immune to crowd control and it help to avoid losing a turn. RM and the HTB can sometimes lose a turn but it won’t hurt. Losing a turn on FF is painful.

           With this much of speed and S5 DDD I can get a few extra turns sometimes or pushing some turns above the borderline between cycles or a certain enemy’s turn. In addition, the HTB also delays an enemy when it is weakness broken by 30%. When RM’s flower explodes, the said major trace trigger again, giving an additional 30% action delay. The enemy usually needs 70~133 AV to recover if 158 speed, or 58~110 AV to recover if 190 speed. More speed on FF and she is more likely to land an extra enhanced skill before the enemy to recover. Replacing them with TY then TY must have something alike. No matter how many damage bonus it is no match to the damage opportunity.

         • Why I use the watchmaker set on the HTB? Because my ERR rope HTB ults rather frequently, she has more opportunity to utilize the watchmaker set and S5 DDD than RM. Giving her the Iron Cavalry set and the team doesn’t gain that much overall damage, since FF hits the hardest and the HTB and the sustainer can finish off the leftovers anyway without the need of much BE or damage increment from relics.

         • I expect TY to also delay, but since it does no bonus damage i never said that.

           I know i am giving TY a LOT of stuff here. But HTB also has a lot of stuff. And i fully expect a huge upgrade from one to the other since one is an MC that will likely be replaced the next MC since the new MC at least Imo is always going to be meta at least for a little while before a replacement comes along.

           Idk about E0 Lingsha and i know you argue with E0. Tbh HTB maybe better for total damage than E0 Lingsha. But Imo E1/S1 Lingsha provides too much damage and damage boost. She does legit 40% of Firefly’s boosted single target damage ontop of that 50% bonus. From what i see. Single target HTB is a 75% boost overall, but E1/S1 Lingsha is a 110% damage boost overall.

         • That’s a common inconvenience when two nodes ask for a same unit. Maybe don’t use both at the same time then if both won’t function without a certain MC. It is something to be considered by Hoyo, maybe it turns out they allow us to have the MC of different path on two nodes but not in a same team.

   • I’ve never been against Lingsha. I’ve very vocally liked her design, I think she’s rly pretty!!

     She’s not bad, her pull value is low. There’s a big difference. If you’re struggling with staying alive Aventurine is better and it’s not even close. If ur trying to optimise your damage and tryhard, sustains are virtually useless. Sustains by default have low value. When you’re actively competing with one of the best 4 stars in the game, it’s very very difficult to recommend her.

     I believe Tingyun should have Exo-toughness or whatever and she’d already be overpowered. Any other form of:
     – Increased weakness break efficiency for the team
     – Break ampl or Superbreak on top
     – High personal Toughness damage (unlike Fraud mei which literally has 0 break impact)

     Sprinkle some of these in and Tingyun breaks the game. She’ll be the easiest support for hoyo to make ever.

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     • Lingsha does more DPS than Gall and HMC together even at E0 while boosting Firefly’s DPS a lot more than Gall as well. But with E1 she’s an outright beast potentially offering even more DPS than Firefly herself does sometimes. She hits hard with everything that she does. She literally solo’s the 3 mech robot enemy’s. You just use ult and instabreak all 3 of them thanks to the Follow up afterwards. Even in a FIrefly team she can do up to 6 actions per cycle and each one of these does massive damage with superbreak. Skill does 80k per enemy, follow up does 160k vs 1 and 80k vs rest and ult stright up does 160k per enemy. With 2 skiills, 1 ult and 3 follow ups that’s literally 800k vs 1 enemy that Lingsha does in a 0 cycle with the current team while boosting Firefly by 50% total DPS. If Tingyun is a lot better than HMC you can see this easily pass a million damage. If there are 3 enemies like the 3 mech robots. She can do up to 1.9m bu herself in a 0 cycle assuming they are alr broken by Firefly. I tried, HMC and RM vs the 3 mech robots and she literally 0 cycles, it is only MoC 10 tho. (I know it’s super weak to break, but i still found it funny that she insta killed them all at the start of p2. Ult, Follow up and skill and they were dead.

       Gall on the other hand does around the same as a Lingsha skill with his ult, does like 150k with his enhanced hit and like 40k with each normal. Assuming 2 normals, 1 ult and 1 enhanced per 0 cycle that’s… 310k per 0 cycle vs 1 or 470k vs 3. Not even close.

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5. I got Lingsha and tried her in both Firefly’s team and Feixiao’s.

   In Firefly’s team her toughness damage is overwhelming. I failed to expend 150 AV before I kill everything in the first wave because the enemies are weakness broken so quickly.

   In Feixiao’s team her count of attacks is high and consistant, even better than I expected. I 0-cycled the Aventurine boss with Feixiao, March, Robin and Lingsha. I’m dare to say, in Feixiao’s team Lingsha ≥ Aventurine in 90% of the case save for some extreme scenarios that are flavorable to Aventurine such as the Hooley boss fight.

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   • By the way her sustaining and cleansing are reliable, at least ≥ Luocha. Like most of the Abundance units she doesn’t prevent one-shot-kill but that’s not something to be observed in MoC, PF, and AS. Meanwhile she prevents two-shot-kill just like Luocha.

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   • Lingsha doesn’t generate as much SP as Avenrurine. She may only be flavorable to Fei + March. If you are running Topaz you may experience SP insufficiency sometimes. If you are running Moze, you may experinece the same for most of the time.

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     • Curious whether you think she’s better than HuoHuo. In my eyes, once QPQ Gallagher became a thing, she lost all her purpose.

       I’d still recommend Aventurine for the follow up team. I know staying alive is a joke these days, but the whole follow up team is very squishy. 2 Crit DPSes and and atk scaling harmony. Shields feel infinitely superior. Cleansing is also fairly useless when half the team is CC immune. Also although SP SHOULD be fine, when stuff goes wrong, it feels bad to have 3 characters which NEED to skill.

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       • Probably. Despite Lingsha doesn’t overtake the roles of Huohuo she can be viewed as generally stronger than Huohuo.

         Huohuo is good for dual DPS teams and high EN units such as Robin, however Aventurine took away the role in the FUA comp and QPQ Gallagher took away the role for Robin’s energy regen. It’s just a matter of time before a dedicated DoT sustainer to take away the role in the DoT comp. What’s worse, Acheron, Firefly, and Feixiao were all inciduously made to block Huohuo away. Meanwhile, Lingsha is tied with Aventurine to be the best sustainers for FUA comp and is the best sustainer for Firefly’s comp and is also a reliable general healer, and it can be foreseen that the break meta will continue for a while, until then the Fire weak service shall expire and the meta shall shift to the new archetypes that may or may not want Huohuo.

         Huohuo is the best among limited sustainers in terms of debuff cleansing. You almost never lose a turn because of crowd control and the debuffs wear off quickly. However, you may still be action delayed when the cc is initially assigned to the character. Lingsha is the second best in the terms, you can still lose a turn because of cc but much less likely than Gallagher, who must hold an ultimate for emergency cleansing.

         Huohuo is the worst among limited sustainers in terms of sustaining reliability. Her signature even makes up for it by additional healing which is a rare sight in Abundance light cones.

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     • It’s funny that you say that. Coz out of the 3 of them Topaz most certainly has the best chance to be the most SP friendly. You don’t actually have to skill with her at all, just focus on whoever automatically has the debuff as it’s always going to be an elite enemy anyway and when there is only 1 enemy like in Aventurine’s boss fight then you most certainly don’t need too. March however gets so many enhanced atks in that team that she barely gens SP at all. Moze is SP neutral.

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       • The last time I argue with someone not on this site about whether Lingsha can be Aventurine’s replacement I said: “March and Topaz are SP positive while Feixiao and Dr.Ratio are SP negative and they cancel out each other, Robin is minorly SP positive, therefore the team can afford the SP decrement when running Lingsha as the sustainer unless you are running Moze.”

         And then the aformentioned someone disagree and said: “No no no Topaz needs to skill often cuz you have to ensure the Proof of Debt is on the right one and her skill does more damage than basic attack.” Since I personally never played Topaz and only learned her play from reading her kits and watching some videos so I didn’t oppose it.

         And a few more from the same person:
         – “Robin and the Hunt units are delicate and will definitely shatter beyond healing when exposed without shields. Only shielders like Aventurine can sustain their lives.”
         – “Aventurine does good personal damage while Lingsha can barely do some damage outside of a super break comp led by Firefly.”
         – “Lingsha’s supporting power are only for the break damage while Aventurine’s is for the FUA damage, albeit only 15% crit damage.”

         As much as I can say March is SP positive, she only needs one SP to make a shifu and she’s purely SP positive after then. While her enhanced basic doesn’t generate SP it also grants a full action advancement and it doesn’t really affect her SP economy.

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         • You don’t use Topaz for the damage so losing like 20% of it by normal instead of skilling is no big deal. She still does more than March or Moze though. Swapping targets with Topaz’s skill is like only attacking when Silverwolf has her weakness implant active. It’s just so unfriendly and burdensome that i just can’t even use SW anymore after finding out just how truly bad she is with Seele. Want to swap who Numbly is targeting to someone else? Then kill them and let it swap automatically, simple. While i do plan to focus heavily on the enemy with the debuff on, i am not going to waste an ult of an enemy with 5% HP left though, nor am i going to wait for Topaz to get her turn to swap targets, i will just activate my ult on the other enemy without the debuff. It’s not going to be any weaker than it is when you use March over Topaz. Overall it’s still going to work out better. Waiting to focus down an enemy until Topaz gets her move is a silly idea tho Imo. Unless like… Poof is on a boss minion and you just want to kill the boss and skill killing the minions… but then you’re not really trying to 0 cycle world bosses are you lol.

           As for the people saying stuff like you need Aventurine to sustain, they are full of nonsense. I’ve been using Gall this entire time and i’ve been fine… Lingsha is a hell of a lot better than Gall.

           Also about March. While it’s true when she gets 7 stacks she will advance, after said enhanced normal she goes to the bottom of the AV list and i swear she does not move again until her next enhanced lol. My friend also told me, he used Moze and March to see which did better overall with his Fei and he said due to March using an SP turn 1, she was actually SP negative during the 0 cycle he did did she never got a SP+ normal off.

         • It’s always funny to me how much people value “supports dealing damage”

           Since Natasha’s E6 made her basic deal 2k damage, people kept yapping about how every supports deals nice damage. It always makes me chuckle, when in reality it’s irrelevant

           It’s pretty much the same with Aventurine. He’d still be just as good even if his attacks dealts 1 dmg. IMG% and Crit builds on him are just cope. Lingsha isn’t doing any better either. Besides break, she does fine there. But the crit build is a Pure Fiction only, semi for fun strategy. If you got the tools to make Crit Lingsha work, you aren’t struggling with endgame. It’s like Wind DH.

         • Yanqing mains were very happy once Aventurine became a thing. For had someone that was better than Gepard for their shielding needs. That can ensure consistence shielding and offer some cc Resist to avoid getting screwed over.

           Which yeah Aventurine damage, does tend to be over rated at times. Like unless you have him at e6 or something. He will put out a decent amount but nothing godly. More like a nice added bonus.

         • And then you get whales with E6 Aventurine and E6 Sparkle with E6 Acherons team along with E6 JQ and he’s dealing 500k follow ups vs multiple enemies and 400k single target with his ult killing everything left and right. Nice to have but nah, i’m good. 😛 Only need 1 damage dealer. Sure it’s nice if supports can finish enemies off but… yea you probably don’t need it.

         • @Reina

           That depends on the speed tuning. My March has 142 speed out of battle and Fei 137. After the speed boost of shifu, their speed are close to each other and March is slightly faster. March’s talent will trigger and grant her a full advancement after her turn for most of the time. If Fei were faster it is possible that March’s talent will trigger at an unflavorable timing that she just need a few AV to reach her next turn but the process is interrupted and you effectively lost a basic attack and 1 SP.

       • When I post at somewhere not this site that Lingsha can be Aventurine’s replacement in the FUA comp, 90% of the comments were objection based on anger from nowhere and the doubt on my objectivity and qualification of talking about FUA comp. They distrust Lingsha’s sustaining and cleansing, show confidence of 50% effect res, needlessly worry about SP economy, exaggerate about Aventurine’s trivial supporting power, and deny every logic and math I talked. Still no clue what caused their enthusiasm of such a behavior.

         Meanwhile a few comments were something like:
         – “You guys still doubt a limited sustainer’s sustaining?”
         – “Yeah, I will get Lingsha for my Fei then, don’t get me wrong I don’t hate Aven, I love girls.”

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         • Most of their argues were lame, as if they didn’t experience the times before Aventurine’s release that people have to run Huohuo to be the sustainer. The comp had no sustaining or SP issues with Huohuo, so shall not have with Lingsha. Aven is here because he attacks alot, and the more the enemies attack the more he attacks, the more he attacks the more energy for Robin and Feixiao and more action advancement for Numby, that’s it. If someone’s attack frequency is ≥ Aven’s for 90% of the times then they can be Aven’s replacement in the comp, which is an obvious thing I already noticed on my first glance of Lingsha’s kit just when the beta starts.

         • https://starrail.honeyhunterworld.com/feixiao-character/comment-page-2/?lang=EN#comment-51259

         • Honestly. I think a better reason against Lingsha. Would be she on second half. So if one were to say wait a week or so. You can get rerun info. for 2.6. So pulling for her right away, might not make sense. However, that can also be a positive as well. If there is no good reruns in 2.6 aka not interested or already have the characters. That can be to her benefit as well. All depending on someone wants/needs.

           That and she is a newer character. So her rerun is likely to come sooner rather than later.

         • So if someone is looking for a character for pure fiction. Who would be say the most flexible, for that game mode. Aven or Lingsha? Or would it depend on what the pure fiction line up is and possibly team as well.

   • Is there is possible to get ultimate every 2 turn with Post-Op Conversation LC and relics with energy recharge stats?

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     • Nah. Lingsha can only 2-turn ult with ERR rope and Luocha’s sig. No any other light cone can do the same.

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     • /w POC:
       Energy Req: 110 / (1.194 + 0.05 + 0.16) ≈ 78.35 energy
       Energy Gain: Ult + Skill / BA * 2 = 65 energy (Oops!)

       /w Luocha’s sig:
       Energy Req: 110 / 1.194 ≈ 92.13
       Energy Gain (3+ enemies): Ult + Skill + BA + Bunny * 2 = 104 energy (Yeah!)
       Energy Gain (2 enemies): Ult + Skill + BA + Bunny * 2 = 92 energy
       You either need to get hit once, or trigger the A4 major trace once during the rotation, which it is a rare case for neither to happen.

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   • Is the comparison based on E0 Lingsha vs E0 Aventurine vs E6 Gallagher, all with 4-star light cones?

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     • E0S0 Lingsha and E0S0 Aven are equivalent for the FUA comp.
       • Adding the signature light cone then Lingsha wins, because her sig gives +18% vul and Aven’s gives +10% vul.
       • Adding more eidolons then Robin’s E1 wins. You seriously want to get eidolons of sustainers for damage when you get apparently more damage buying Robin’s E1?

       E6 Gallagher’s count of attacks can never be a match of Lingsha, but is still considered viable.

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6. I saw someone here said Lingsha >= Aven for Fei team like… lol, really, guys? I’m genuinely asking 🤔

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   • She’s more consistent. Never a question to how many atk’s she can get off. Sometimes she can get off 1 or 2 more. (Depends if you have to skill with Adve to get shields or not and if he gets the hits for extra stacks and also your luck on his ult ect ect.) She is defiantly good with the team even if she is worse than him most of the time. If you don’t have him, getting her would be ok and once you have her there would be not enough reason to get him as the upgrade while there, isn’t that big.

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     • Which given she is on the second half. Well I would wait for 2.6 rerun info, before rolling. Since there is always that chance. They might Bring back gamble man for a rerun. So people can collect him for his fancy hat.

       Of course. I would say that just a good idea in general. If you think about rolling on the second half of the patch and unsure if you want a character vs reruns that might happen next patch.

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7. seems like all of you need MY oppinion because you can’t even decide for yourself if she is good or bad lmao 🗿🗿🗿
   inside FF, she is the best healer
   she is much better than gallagger at everything because she spams aoe superbreak, she is 10 times better than gallagger at AS and PF for FF
   outside of FF team though, she is the worst healer
   she is better at fire than luocha at imaginary, worse than huohuo at neutral weaknesses, for a 2.0 to be weaker than 1.0 this is ominous omen
   she is worse than fuxuan wich in turn much worse than adventurer which is a kinda wide gaping gap

   to make it comfortable to understand: the minimum requirement for her is 2 COSTS, ideal performance is 3COSTS 🗿🗿🗿
   for feixuan team she still needs 2 costs but inferior to adventurer

   🗿🗿🗿

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   • Ok here a question. What the fuck do you mean by cost?

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   • You know. If your trying to explain something to others. your going to need to speak in terms they can understand. For if someone has no idea what you mean by cost. You write up is just going to be more confusing than helpful. Given they have no idea what you mean by cost.

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     • People on youtube for some reason instead of saying e0s1 or e2s1 or e1s1 they say respectively 2 cost, 4 cost, 2 cost.
       Each cost is a investiment you put in that unit,for each eidolon or sig lc you get 1 cost. for some reason they use this and its really confusing cuz its a term not used inside the game.

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       • Yeah. I have to agree. The cost part is confusing. Given if someone used to playing genshin. They are most likely use to terms of c0 r1 or in this game case. e0 s1.
         Since they are just shortcuts or shorten versions of terms in game. So someone who plays the game, might be able to figure it out. If given a moment or two.

         Given if you use the terms that exist in game. People would be able to go. Ah yes. That is going to used up alot of rolls to build x team. Due to needing this many copies of y character and this or that weapon. Along with it being clearer if they mean say a e2 Firefly or e1 s1.

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8. Yeah garbage bait…

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9. This is the worst character they cooked yet.
   >NPC looking design that looks AI generated
   >lame animations
   >lame kit too as she is not touching Huohuo as best generalist healer and units who don’t care for Huohuo (Acheron and Feixiao) would rather have Aventurine who is way better on sole fact of being preservation

   The only damn unit she is truly for is for Firefly but:
   1) Firefly doesn’t need her as is + her stupid bunny gimmick is crap for any E2 Firefly haver such as myself because it can steal breaks which happened to me in trials couple of times
   2) She already got good enough option
   3) Firefly can already go sustainless in any mode with ease as it is
   4) For any E0 Firefly haver she sounds like pain as well unless you pull damn Tingyun so you can have your harmony TB that uses no SP so this chick doesn’t crap herself and rest of the team due to SP issues

   5* Tingyun requirement so she can utilize her kit to actual full potential is comedy lol No other sustain REQUIRED another limited this hard so their kit isn’t half cooked.

   I wish I could travel back in time and pull Yunli, who is at least fun to play. But, nah! I thought 5* Gallagher is going to cook and what I got is this NPC looking trash with hot garbage for a kit.

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   • lmao crying text wall

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   • She’s a good adve replacement in Feixiao teams. Adve cannot be everywhere and some people don’t even have him. Say you want to use Acheron and to 0 cycle your Acheron needs Adve on her team to get that extra ult before the end of the cycle to finish off the enemy or you just don’t have the guy. What does your Fei team use? Gall? Sure his 8 turns in a 0 cycle is nice. But i’ve actually found at the end of my 0 cycle vs Adve boss that my Fei has 5 stacks remaining, literally just 1 away from getting another one. If my Fei was any weaker i’d actually need that ult stack to finish him off. Well guess what? Lingsha who gets 11 turns in a 0 cycle (3 more than Gall.) gets me that extra stack. (4 vs 5.5 or 8.5 if E2 Fei) This is without taking Robin into account, you could actually pull some Robin shenanigan’s to have Lingsha gain more actions. I think i heard she should get 13 with Robin vs 9 with Gall.

     Tl;dr Lingsha lets Fei at least my Fei get extra ult compared to Gall.

     This on top of the fact her healing is way better than Galls which no one is ever talking about when they compare the two which makes no sense since their main purpose is to HEAL!

     Ontop of that if you build her for damage she actually does really well in PF fiction. Putting her with Jade is a very solid 2 team clear.

     At E1/S1 she also increases the break teams overall DPS by over 50% while giving far more weakness break than Gall is capable of. If the current superbreak team is considered a tier 0 team, then how good is a character than can increase that teams damage by over 50%? I’d say pretty damn good. It does need an Eidolon though which for some people is too much commitment. But you have to look at Imo at least the first and 2nd Eidolon to say if a char is bad or not.

     No doubt since i mentioned Firefly being tier 0 a certain someone is going to come to this comment and say she’s not tier 0. Idc, most people consider her as such, and i said considered tier 0! Considered =/= Is. Plus with the extra 50% from Lingsha and however more powerful Tingyun 2.0 is going to make it you may end up having to eat your words. as a 2m damage Firefly comes rocketing in.

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     • When it comes to Firefly. She sort of like Seele. In that the more you invest in her team. The more noticable improvement you will see. Like faster clears. Due to getting something as simple as more speed or break effect on the likes of Harmony Mc, Gall.

       The only issue I can think of. Is skill points if FIrefly is e0. However, if firefly is E1. There shouldn’t be much issue with going for Lingsha. Since you should have enough skill points to have her use her skill every now and then, while also spamming Harmony Mc skill for energy or just additional damage. Which given Lingsha also has follow up attacks. Her being a hybrid of sorts. Does make her flexible. When it comes to team building.

       Tingyun 2.0 will be interesting to see how that plays out. Of course when it comes to Lingsha. I would say. She is a newer character. So if people skip and pick her up later. She is likely to return sooner rather than later. Unless they end up with the genshin cyro curse. Wriothesley no rerun for over a year. Chiori gets two banners in the same year. Going back to star rail. So if someone wanted to pick up e1 Firefly first before picking her up. Due to wanting to ensure they have the Jades for it. I could see it making alot of sense.

       Which yeah, she doesn’t seem to be a bad character. Given she does have oh fuck I need a heal now build into her kit. To help keep your party alive and kicking, when it needed most. Which given she can help boost damage. For break effect teams. She reminds me alot of HuoHuo. A healer that is also a buffer. So might not be the best for every team but the ones she works in, she will work very well in.

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       • Yeah since Tingyun 2.0 is not release yet. I would take that with a bit of salt. Since wasn’t Robin a healer at one point? Going by leaks. With her release version, being different.

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         • that is true.

           Which yeah the whole thing about you might eat your words. Is well. Sure that might be true and Tingyun would be great on a Firefly team but also possible that won’t be a thing. It basically gambling, that the point you make turns out to be true in the future. Which the thing about relaying on a what if. Is there a equal chance for it to be true and false at the same time.

         • Yeah Robin did have a self heal at one point. Fox man used to have healing. Sparkle used to have crit rate as part of her base kit until it got change to attack %. Things do tend to change from early leaks or even in beta to full release. So yeah. Take any kit info with a bit of salt. For while yeah. They might end up being a buffer, their kit might work a bit differently than early leaks might hint at.

   • Lol
     > Lingsha has one of the prettiest design in the game. Even if you don’t wanna agree with that, her fluffy puffy cutesy bunny follow ups are in now way poorly animated or lame.

     > Her kit isn’t weak. Her pull value is simply low. The Topaz theorem. Aventurine is miles better. Gallagher already fulfills the EXACT SAME niche incredibly well. Her kit is not bad, just redundant. Are the 100+/- pulls worth it? Who knows :3 (so far no)

     > Blame the fraudulent content creators who undermined all limited 5 star physical characters in the game lol. Payed hoyo shillers.

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     • Yeah I swear content creators. Most of them read off the same couple of lines. New character op. Can’t skip. Must roll. I have skipped countless characters for one reason or another. Able to clear end game content. Without these countless op characters. They keep pushing every single patch. At least going by content creators. Using rather old characters as well, that have been so called power creep as well for end game content.

       Like it more important to build a good team, over getting a group of characters that don’t work well with one another. Or with how all these content creators want you to roll every single patch. For all the new op flavor of the month. It like, are they even aware of how rng relics are? A few properly build characters. Are going to be better than a large cast of character who are half ass build or worst, like tank Seele. For if your current cast of dps all have like 20 crit rate and 70 crit damage. It might be better idea to focus on building them up, over rolling for a new dps.

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     • At least they get paid to shill shit units like her. You’re slurping and coping about someone who looks like literal NPC. Another Xianzhou dress case and someone who looks like existing character (Sparkle) except way worse in every way. Better yet! Not only is she shittier looking Sparkle, but she also literally copies Tingyun’s dress except way worse yet again.
       Your standards for animations must be dogwater too if you see hers and think “wow this looks great.” What joke is that? Fu Xuan, unit from last bloody year, has better animations than this playable NPC.
       And, yes. Her kit is shit. You and others can keep coping about that as well. Her trial just showed me how garbage she would be for my E2 Firefly with her stupid bunny shit that steals breaks and my advances as such. E0 Firefly havers on another hand are forced to wait Tingyun because this NPC wants to skill the most as well. So, who the hell is she made for at very base level and no 5* Tingyun to drag her deadweight? E1 Firefly only? lol

       I’ll never not curse NPCsha’s shills who ever made me consider waiting for this garbage unit because Firefly’s must have. I guess I now know how Jiaoqiu simps felt. Difference here is that the NPC fox at least works for unit that he was made for (Acheron). This NPC elf (vidyadhara my ass – bloody NPC vidyadhara at the end of the quest has more unique looking vidyadhara design than this playable NPC who only larps as vidyadhara) can’t even work with Firefly well enough to consider pulling her trash negative sized ass on sole fact that:
       1) E0 Firefly – constant SP issues
       2) E2 Firefly – steals your bloody breaks with her stupid summon
       3) “b-but summon meta next” – actually it’s SERVANTS META aka completely new “summons” aka units like JY/Topaz/Bricksha are not included aka this bitch is absolutely useless even more outside of premium bait Firefly team

       You and the rest can keep coping until end of time just because you have zero standards and will roll for anything that has pair up there, but I’m not giving a single jade to this trash. I should’ve gotten E2 Huohuo instead because that’s a good unit unlike this clown.

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       • How is someone saying low pull value, gamble man is better. They are redundant and a four star can already fulfill the same roll very well. That doesn’t sound like they are slurping and coping. Which you also know, the character is not out yet. So coping make no sense. How can they be coping, for a character they have yet to invest in? Far as we know, they might have zero interested in picking up this character. Just cause they said a few good things about the character, doesn’t mean they are a blind fanboy/girl. If anything it sounds like Invigilator is saying, there is much better units you can spend your rolls on.

         The one coping sounds like you. Given rather than going for something you wanted. You waited on a unknown. For a character that is likely to get a rerun sooner rather than later.

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10. Did anyone else try her out during new mission? I know it is just a trial charcter, so there is still room for improvement. Nevertheless her performance compared to Gallagher (mine is E6) was already fine in Firefly Break team. I could see a damage increase and never felt like worrying about dying. Only thing i would miss in this team is the immunity of Gallagher. Next up i tried her for a few fights in Feixiao team. TBH there she felt a bit underwhelming. I would say performance wise sidegrade/slight upgrade to Gallagher, but downgrade compared to Aventurin

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